How Air Canada became *ahhh* North America's best airline
Aug 14, 2016, 10:35 am
#31
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All that analysis about Canadians isn't how I see it. The US airlines have been worse after the mergers brought them to their lowest common denominator. I traveled on AA from Maui to Dallas on an ancient 767 with ceiling mounted TV's, no meals, bad seats and all sorts of extra fees. Air Canada's merger with Canadian actually improved things - for a while. And AC has been renewing its fleet and being a bit more considerate but the fees and competition are starting to make it nothing better than the other NA airlines. Porter used to be an example of trying to succeed by being better - but their descent with fees, more crowding, and poorer service is beginning. My hope is that after all airlines hit rock bottom there will be a bounce for people wanting better service and that will cause airlines to emulate the best examples and exceed our expectations. My hope is the Allegiants of the world will dry up and their demise will cause others to do better, not worse. Or not.
Aug 14, 2016, 10:53 am
#32
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I fly all the major US airlines regularly and AC once or twice a year. I used to enjoy AC and looked forward to flying them... and until a couple of years ago, considered them 2nd only to AA in domestic NA catering. But my how things have changed. AA has gone from first to worst among US airlines since DUI Dougie and his crew took over and trashed the place. And if my recent AC LAX-YUL-LAX flights are an indication, AC has fallen off the cliff as well. On the other hand, UA has improved significantly after the BOD gave Jeff the boot. IMO, after B6 and VX, they now have the best domestic food of NA airlines.
I would rank domestic NA premium class service as follows:
1. JetBlue Mint
2. Virgin America
3. United
4. Delta
5. American
6. Air Canada and Alaska
Add in the inability for AC or Aeroplan to answer a phone call in a reasonable amount of time and other IT issues, and AC probably ranks lower than Spirit for overall experience.
I would rank domestic NA premium class service as follows:
1. JetBlue Mint
2. Virgin America
3. United
4. Delta
5. American
6. Air Canada and Alaska
Add in the inability for AC or Aeroplan to answer a phone call in a reasonable amount of time and other IT issues, and AC probably ranks lower than Spirit for overall experience.
Last edited by SFO777; Aug 14, 2016 at 10:59 am
Aug 14, 2016, 1:44 pm
#33
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,933
Are you claiming that AC never changes assigned seats?
Just last month, my parents were flying in J on AC to/from LHR (I'd got them the flight with my miles). You'll have to trust me that I had made sure that they both had assigned seats, and both seats were next to each other. In fact, because I know things can get messed up, I re-checked their assigned seats a couple of weeks before they traveled.
As a result, I was shocked and upset when my parents arrived home, and told me that their seats on the return flight were not, in fact, next to each other ... one was in the seat I'd selected (2K), but the other had been changed (without notice) to 5D.
Not being frequent flyers, they were a little surprised & upset, but they did not say anything to anyone about it ... they just accepted their (newly assigned) seats.
Yes, my example is slightly different than the OP's case ... and besides, it's a just little thing. But excellence comes from getting the little things right.
And AC, too many times, doesn't get the little things right.
Just last month, my parents were flying in J on AC to/from LHR (I'd got them the flight with my miles). You'll have to trust me that I had made sure that they both had assigned seats, and both seats were next to each other. In fact, because I know things can get messed up, I re-checked their assigned seats a couple of weeks before they traveled.
As a result, I was shocked and upset when my parents arrived home, and told me that their seats on the return flight were not, in fact, next to each other ... one was in the seat I'd selected (2K), but the other had been changed (without notice) to 5D.
Not being frequent flyers, they were a little surprised & upset, but they did not say anything to anyone about it ... they just accepted their (newly assigned) seats.
Yes, my example is slightly different than the OP's case ... and besides, it's a just little thing. But excellence comes from getting the little things right.
And AC, too many times, doesn't get the little things right.
Aug 14, 2016, 2:06 pm
#34
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AC ability to deal with schedule changes or flight changes/cancellations is bad compared to US airlines however right now AC certainly has better seats.
However AA has made massive improvements and the new UA seats coming look really nice.
AC seems to just enjoy telling Canadians they have very little choice and everything they do is a reflection of the belief.
However AA has made massive improvements and the new UA seats coming look really nice.
AC seems to just enjoy telling Canadians they have very little choice and everything they do is a reflection of the belief.
Aug 14, 2016, 2:12 pm
#35
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: YUL
Programs: Skymiles Silver Medallion
Posts: 955
With only 35 million people, we are the lowest-populated country of the G7, with less than half the population of the second-lowest. While relatively wealthy as far as world countries go, we simply don't have the population size to sustain the level of competitiveness that many other countries like the US, UK, Germany, France, etc. have. Our population size can't sustain more than a few major players in each of these industries requiring heavy investment in infrastructure. There's just no way for more players to cheaply and easily enter the market, and no market to keep them alive when they do.
Our only options are international competition (tough for domestic routes and made tougher due to protectionist policies) or government regulation of oligopolies to force them to be more customer-friendly (historically difficult because of the powerful business lobbies that tend to take over regulatory bodies and sway them in their favour).
So we pretty much are forced to shut up and put up with it.
Aug 14, 2016, 2:12 pm
#36
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Aug 14, 2016, 7:12 pm
#37
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I fly all the major US airlines regularly and AC once or twice a year. I used to enjoy AC and looked forward to flying them... and until a couple of years ago, considered them 2nd only to AA in domestic NA catering. But my how things have changed. AA has gone from first to worst among US airlines since DUI Dougie and his crew took over and trashed the place. And if my recent AC LAX-YUL-LAX flights are an indication, AC has fallen off the cliff as well. On the other hand, UA has improved significantly after the BOD gave Jeff the boot. IMO, after B6 and VX, they now have the best domestic food of NA airlines.
I would rank domestic NA premium class service as follows:
1. JetBlue Mint
2. Virgin America
3. United
4. Delta
5. American
6. Air Canada and Alaska
Add in the inability for AC or Aeroplan to answer a phone call in a reasonable amount of time and other IT issues, and AC probably ranks lower than Spirit for overall experience.
I would rank domestic NA premium class service as follows:
1. JetBlue Mint
2. Virgin America
3. United
4. Delta
5. American
6. Air Canada and Alaska
Add in the inability for AC or Aeroplan to answer a phone call in a reasonable amount of time and other IT issues, and AC probably ranks lower than Spirit for overall experience.
While I quite like Alaska Airlines and would rank them higher, but excellent post.
Aug 14, 2016, 7:40 pm
#38
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,506
That explains their fares. My next trip wholly within the US is in January from LAS to WAS. Southwest: USD 172. Virgin America on the very same day: USD 1,000 - in Main Cabin!
I am wiling to pay a bit extra for a better experience, starting with warm meals. But that is almost six times the price. No wonder I've never flown Virgin America.
I am wiling to pay a bit extra for a better experience, starting with warm meals. But that is almost six times the price. No wonder I've never flown Virgin America.
Aug 14, 2016, 9:27 pm
#39
Join Date: Jul 2005
Programs: SQ *Gold
Posts: 871
Well I agree with the observations of Canadians in general.
But to be fair, a few years back AC did have better product than other NA carriers - better food in J, seatback power, lie flat seats, MLL, AE. They were and continue to be inferior in handling IROPs. So I would think they were winning based on hard product and not the US legacy carriers are catching up in various aspects while AC is cutting back to meet them.
But to be fair, a few years back AC did have better product than other NA carriers - better food in J, seatback power, lie flat seats, MLL, AE. They were and continue to be inferior in handling IROPs. So I would think they were winning based on hard product and not the US legacy carriers are catching up in various aspects while AC is cutting back to meet them.
I genuinely enjoyed reading the OP's observations, but I would point out that loathing AC is as much a national past time in Canada as the superiority/inferiority complex vis a vis the US. This to me would balance out the nationalism factor which may compel some Canadians to vote AC up.
As an aside, I too love the CFL game but can't deny that it continues to struggle outside the prairies.
Aug 14, 2016, 10:10 pm
#40
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I genuinely enjoyed reading the OP's observations, but I would point out that loathing AC is as much a national past time in Canada as the superiority/inferiority complex vis a vis the US. This to me would balance out the nationalism factor which may compel some Canadians to vote AC up.
I agree that grumbling about AC is a Canadian national pastime.
Aug 14, 2016, 11:07 pm
#41
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YEG
Posts: 269
If you fly domestically in Canada you have 2 choices, WS or AC. WS is not exactly "business" friendly. So not much choice for Canucks voting in polls. AC or nothing. As pointed out earlier, hating AC is a national past-time, especially in Western Canada.
Aug 15, 2016, 12:03 pm
#42
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+1, it's almost like deciding between Trump or Hilary. Just because one wins doesn't mean they're good......
Aug 15, 2016, 12:05 pm
#43
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Aug 15, 2016, 12:09 pm
#44
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Aug 15, 2016, 2:26 pm
#45
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I fly all the major US airlines regularly and AC once or twice a year. I used to enjoy AC and looked forward to flying them... and until a couple of years ago, considered them 2nd only to AA in domestic NA catering. But my how things have changed. AA has gone from first to worst among US airlines since DUI Dougie and his crew took over and trashed the place. And if my recent AC LAX-YUL-LAX flights are an indication, AC has fallen off the cliff as well. On the other hand, UA has improved significantly after the BOD gave Jeff the boot. IMO, after B6 and VX, they now have the best domestic food of NA airlines.
I would rank domestic NA premium class service as follows:
1. JetBlue Mint
2. Virgin America
3. United
4. Delta
5. American
6. Air Canada and Alaska
Add in the inability for AC or Aeroplan to answer a phone call in a reasonable amount of time and other IT issues, and AC probably ranks lower than Spirit for overall experience.
I would rank domestic NA premium class service as follows:
1. JetBlue Mint
2. Virgin America
3. United
4. Delta
5. American
6. Air Canada and Alaska
Add in the inability for AC or Aeroplan to answer a phone call in a reasonable amount of time and other IT issues, and AC probably ranks lower than Spirit for overall experience.
Agreed you with preferring UA nowadays over AA-I'm only flying AA to burn my last SWUs (and I have to route via NRT to have a decent chance of clearing them, adding a connection...)