Indeed, that's part of the BA devaluation this year. However, most people here on FT agree BA and IB have been very generous thus far with what's considered "off season". You will note the screenshot I posted re: the Iberia Business award is in fact June 11, 2016 and on a Saturday no less. The vast majority part of the year, including most of June is considered "Off Season". If the award requires you to travel to Europe in the middle of February, then I'd agree it would be a major inconvenience. but that's not the case. While Aeroplan does not have a high/low season distinction, the reality is getting award seats on partners during high demand period can be very difficult. If you want to fly to Europe in J during the last week of June or first week of July using Aeroplan miles on European partners, well good luck with that.


Actually, the minimum is 2.5K miles + about $40 because Avios have the unique option of using part cash part miles for Y/J/F award even on partners such as AA or CX. The vast majority of Canadians live along the corridor of Windsor to Quebec City, which means most people are one short hop away from the gateway airport of JFK/BOS either by plane or bus. In fact, many people prefer to fly directly out of US airport because they can easily save $50~$60 off the NAVCAN surcharge and the YYZ/YUL airport fees. Surely, living in YVR, you understand the benefits of flying out of SEA vs. YVR. You are only one Quickshuttle ride away from Sea-Tac airport. The savings you made on airport taxes alone is >> than the cost of the bus ticket. Even if you don't want to take a bus, nothing stops you from flying Alaska down to Sea-Tac out of YVR or for East Coasters, YUL/YYZ to JFK on AA, all for just 2.5K+$40+airport charges. You can even turn it into a stopover if you so choose to, but not with Aeroplan.

:confused: Uh what? Do you actually know what is Iberia? I mean, their network, along with affiliated airlines Air Nostrum and Iberia Express (bookable on miles) actually cover pretty much the entire European continent. I counted well over 100+ destinations within Europe:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5671/...15eae21776.jpg

It's actually a very flexible a la carte online booking system, for example, you want to go to Nice, France in Business class all the way in June next year:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5630/...61d34df5c5.jpg

You select the flights you want, then the system calculates how many miles you need and then gives you the various options to pay part of the mileage cost in cash. In this case, the system says you need to pay 43,000 miles but as little as 22,400 miles if you so choose to with a cash co-pay.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5656/...a173c8ffe3.jpg

But many people feel intra-Europe J class for flights less than 2 hours is a waste of money, so Iberia gives you the option of customizing your itinerary a little differently and make some savings instead:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/618/2...fff00da5a6.jpg

Notice I select Business class for the Transatlantic segment but only "Blue Class" or the cheapest economy class for the short intra-Europe hop from Madrid to Nice, France. The system also tells you how many seats are available for your flight in the desired class so if you have a family of 4, you know which flights can accommodate your entire family. The availability is excellent when you book far in advance as you can see from the first screenshot, you can book up to 6 people from New York to Nice via Madrid in Business class, in the month of June next year no less.

Now that I customized my trip to select only economy class for my intra-Europe flight but keeping the long-haul flight in J, the system gives me a new price for my trip:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/724/2...96c0bb75f5.jpg

The price now drops to 38,500 miles and starting from as little as 19,700 miles. You can add the 2.5K extra that most Canadians need to pay to fly YUL/YYZ-JFK on AA or LA/JJ.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/708/2...8ce86ae32b.jpg

One way or the other, the total cost of miles one-way is still far, far lower than what Aeroplan is charging and even more so that what it will charge post December 15. And BA/IB just had their devaluation, so these mileage levels aren't going anywhere. Oh and United won't get you to Nice for example because they don't fly to Nice, a popular resort destination btw. Turkish has some limited flights to Nice certain times of the year but you need very significant backtracking and there is no guarantee Aeroplan will continue to count a connection via Europe 2 as Europe 1 in the future. So even if you fly UA to say, Germany, then connect on LH to Nice, you will still have to pay LH surcharge on the intra-Europe segments. And if you want to go to places like Mallorca, Canary Islands, Naples, Italy or Ireland, good luck getting to these destinations using Aeroplan without having to pay fuel surcharge. Actually, good luck getting the availability you need on the dates you need - you are going to need a lot of luck and yes, pay the hefty surcharges. And if you need to bring your family of 4 along...well, pray. IB gives you its entire European network free of surcharges, virtually the entire continent is only one flight away from Madrid.

There is no contest while in Europe, you need to fly a major European carrier with a vast network for connections. Neither UA or TK are adequate replacements - they are the ones with limited destinations, limited flights & availability, not the other way around.

Everything has strengths & weaknesses. There is no denial that a distance based award like Avios is weaker vs. a zone base award chart in certain areas. The fact is the vast majority of Canadians live less than 400 miles away from BOS/JFK or just one short hop away by plane, which makes Avios very attractive as a way to get to Europe and back, especially because on the way back, US to Canada on AA only charges a small tax of $5 vs. $50~$70 when flying out of Canada. JFK to YYZ/YUL costs virtually nothing with the taxes literaly amounts to that of a transit ticket price because AA doesn't have scam charges on award, unlike Aeroplan.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/744/2...6e4cbe4737.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5738/...1b7e4211a8.jpg

If you want to fly CX J to JFK, to connect to IB J, you are better off using two separate awards. One using AS miles for 25K in J:

https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...ic-canada.aspx

The schedule connects nicely however, you leave YVR around noon to take IB's flight around 8:30PM. The total adds up to 25K+34K = 59K miles with the distinct advantage of not having any fuel surcharge. Then, it's another 2.5K miles to most IB destinations within 650 miles of Madrid. 4K more if within 1150 miles of Madrid.

Alternatively, you can use AS miles to fly AS+AA to Europe for 50K miles in Business class each way, for example, YVR-LAX-LHR, again no fuel surcharge. AS partner awards include complimentary travel on AS to partner's gateway airport. Once in Europe, you can use Avios on BA/IB/LA/AB and etc. to get to the destination you want to go. While the mileage cost from West Coast is more or less a wash, the savings on the fuel surcharge can be quite significant still.

It was an example, not an exhaustive list. Most Oneworld carriers do not charge YQ within Europe, including Air Berlin even when using Asia Miles, Lan Chile has no fuel sucharge of anykind anywhere, Aer Lingus has none either. All of the above are bookable using Avios, plus of course, IB's own extensive network. However, finding availability using Aeroplan miles can be a major challenge, as can be attested by numerous negative PR recently on the news to this effect. That's why award booking is not just a theoretical exercise.

You are once again comparing apples to oranges. There are several threads in the CX forum dissecting these side by side comparison in great details. I think you should go there and do a search and catch up on some readings. I participated in some of those discussions and don't feel like repeating what have already been debated over and over in the CX forum here.

Intra-Asia? After December 15, yes, Aeroplan will be the worst, without a doubt. 80K for J return and up to 130K in F? Seriously, can't think of any major North American FFP program doing worse here, can you? Keep in mind, you need to compare apples to apples. FFP that gives out 200% and 300% for J/F flights or up to 11X based on the total ticket revenue is not the same as a program capping F at 150%. Oh and don't forget to add the hefty fuel surcharges within Asia since Aeroplan scams them on most Asian partners. Aeroplan only benchmarks themselves from a redemption standpoint but ignore the fact they give very little miles for flying vs. its competitors. No matter, it will find out the hard way very quickly many of the increasingly scarce premium customers will pack their bags and look for greener pasture considering Canadian economy isn't exactly in great shape at the moment.

At the risk of repeating myself over and over to the point of sounding like a broken record, not all miles are created equal. Aeroplan rarely ever have any bank to FFP transfer bonus like BA often runs, plus the fact BA gives far more miles for flying premium fares vs. Aeroplan such that it is plainly obvious the value of Aeroplan mile vs. Avios is not 1 to 1. Of the list of 5 programs you named as examples to HKG, I can tell you the cheapest option in terms of opportunity cost, assuming the miles are gained entirely from CC spending, is in fact Asia Miles, even though in absolute term, AS is lower. As to why or how, it would be best you ask that question in the appropriate forum.

Yes, they have. I just booked TK YUL-IST-BCN for July 12, and I also saw Swiss availability for the same date.

To be fair, we were redeeming Y Europe seats in the good ol' days of the 1990s, when Y to London on AC cost 60,000 miles and $0. Considering that probably 95 % of the miles were accrued through PapaTwick's expense account-related CC spend & flights, the tickets really were free.

How do you know what he will be charged?

My last Aeroplan change fee posted to my credit card as $71.80. Not everyone has to pay tax to Aeroplan, and not everyone pays in CA$.

I assume they'll update it in December, once the changes are in effect. But I agree it would be stupid if they don't :rolleyes:

are you... AP literally taking out the VERY few redeeming features it had.

How far in advance can you make AP bookings?

I was looking forward to spending 90k on next Christmas vacation, Dec 15 is too early.

Now I have no reason to pick AC over UA, or especially OW anymore... good job Aeroplan. Gooood job.

For the record, now it's:

Y J F
AA/UA 20000 50000 62500
AS(AA) 20000 50000 62500
UA 30000 57500 80000
AE 30000 55000 70000

AA/UA: No YQ
AS(AA): No YQ
UA: No YQ
AE: Lots of YQ -thumbs up-

The one redeeming feature, cheap premium west coast - europe 1 flights is now gone for me... especially considering YQ are probably going to stay high and we also won't be earning more. -sigh-

I welcome the one-way option but since they jacked up the mileage, it's a moot point.

I wish we could churn/earn AA miles :(

RBC Avion transfers to AA 1:1, so there's at least that!

Asia Mile still has access to Air China's flights, where you can still spend 20K for a domestic Chinese flight, whereas you have to pay 40K for aeroplan now.

This is one of the most redemption I have used when I am working there and need to fly people or family with me. Sighs

Alaska's CX-award chart is great for intra-asia flights, though you'll have to connect via HKG. Still good if you're not asia-based as AS miles are way easier to accumulate.

Y: 25k RT
PE: 30k RT
J: 45k RT
F: 55k RT

Dear Aeroplan,

As of September 25, 2015, the day you announced changes to your program, I will be cancelling all my Aeroplan credit cards. As for my business, we will also be cancelling all Aeroplan credit cards. You're welcome.

I wonder if these changes also affect Upgrade Award prices. I fear they do.

I seem to have been misinterpreted multiple times

From what I recall, the CX flight out of YVR is a red eye, I don't get what you mean by noon. It leaves closer to midnight and arrives at the crack of dawn. Availability hasn't been so hot recently either even on short notice.

Iberia metal destination comment was from the perspective of Spain to north America, especially the west coast. Obviously they have a domestic network. JFK, ORD and lax are perhaps the best choices for someone out of the west coast, but again, additional cost. Taking the bus to Seattle doesn't really help me in this case anyways? (Not that I would with an infant)

Alaska plus Iberia suggestion is still 59k (and Alaska miles are much harder to earn in Canada than Aeroplan with only one credit card partner), versus the 45k today and 55k in the future.

Taking Lufthansa after taking a no yq carrier like Swiss across the ocean doesn't incur fuel surcharges. YUL to FRA in economy on the first date I looked at Feb 10 is an example (Swiss to LH).

I was comparing Aeroplan to other ff programs going to Hong Kong. In that context it's hardly the worst. Even with the 25 percent Mr to Avios bonus it's still 144k which is only better

I for one don't earn many miles from cc spending, here it's more about sign-up bonuses for non flyers. In Canada there's what, 7 Aeroplan credit cards not including membership rewards charge cards? Heck even one Aeroplan amex referral gave more miles than half a year's worth of spending

Signup and transfer bonuses for BA and Asia miles here are much rarer in comparison. I don't live in Hong Kong, so how they earn doesn't mean much here (versus US credit cards which we can get some exposure to).

In the end, moving away completely from Aeroplan in Canada seems like cutting your nose to spite...somebody. You work with what you have, avoiding it completely send extremely short sighted to me. There's nothing stopping anybody from collecting multiple programs, the only real decision is whether to transfer amex Mr to Aeroplan or Avios. This is the first amex BA transfer bonus in two years, and I'm not sure they're going to bring it back anytime soon with the terrible Canadian dollar and the fact that the US amex Mr program is about to devalue themselves too.

Avios has its uses, but post devaluation I'm in no way going to use it for anything beyond band 3 going forward due to the triple cost for anything in band 4 onwards and because Aeroplan's routing rules for roundtrip are just so much more flexible with the two stops plus destination, not to mention the best infant ticket policy among major programs.

You keep mentioning huge earnings for full fare business and first class, but that's a completely different world from me (and perhaps the majority of Canadians?). Between discounted economy, very rare premium economy and the very occasional deep discounted business class fare (like the 1.6k star alliance or 2k one world), earnings across programs don't differ all that much, with 25 percent flight miles on discounted CX/Tango Canada and up to 125 percent flight miles on star p or one world I fares being the reality for someone like me who flies on their own dime.

What is wrong with these people?!?

United is 30/70/110 if you fly Star Alliance partners.

110k UA miles vs 70k+500 YQ AP miles for one way LH F is not that far apart

This is an interesting point that very few on this board understand, and even fewer actually practice.

On SMD6, I tried explaining EYW to someone who wanted to know how I had so many Aeroplan miles. And then we got talking about Aeroplan. He is a US citizen, living in the US (his whole life), but still earns 100k+ Aeroplan miles every year.

Why? For the mini RTWs.

Every program has sweet spots. Sure, Aeroplan just cut one out (intra-Asia) and made other redemptions less optimal than in the past.

But if you want to go spend significant time in three cities around the world, and less than 24 hours in other cities, it's hard to do better than Aeroplan.

Then there's the SE crowd with the current IKK, but that's not really related to Aeroplan (although it explains why an SE might choose to collect Aeroplan).

You'd have to elaborate on who you're referring to by "these people" :p