Capacity controls for SE's...Already here.!
Jul 30, 2002, 2:07 pm
#31
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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And what, pray tell do the analysts say? Andrew's comment aside, the ones I have been reading all say that of the mainline carriers in NAmerica, only AC has done anything remotely sensible to restore fiscal viability to its route network, and responded to low-cost competition without undermining its core business. Week's end financials will tell the story.
Jul 30, 2002, 2:42 pm
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SYD
Posts: 2,437
Okay.
Let wait and see.!
Just one point, you say they responded to low cost competition without undermining te core business.
SO...
JAZZ...ZIP..TANGO..JETZ...
Don't undermine there core business.!
Umm SH you do have a way of making me smile.
What exactly do you figure the core business to be/or was.?
Let wait and see.!
Just one point, you say they responded to low cost competition without undermining te core business.
SO...
JAZZ...ZIP..TANGO..JETZ...
Don't undermine there core business.!
Umm SH you do have a way of making me smile.
What exactly do you figure the core business to be/or was.?
Jul 30, 2002, 2:59 pm
#33
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SYD
Posts: 2,437
And this is what they say...
nalysts see clearer skies in Canada.
They expect WestJet to report increased profit tomorrow, and are looking for Air Canada to return to profitability when it reports Thursday, after losing money in six successive quarters.
"When you look at Air Canada compared with the U.S. [full-service airlines], it is going to look extremely good because . . . none of them are even close to profitable," said Fadi Chamoun, an analyst with UBS Warburg Inc. in Toronto.
Air Canada president and chief executive officer Robert Milton has repeatedly said he expects Air Canada to return to profitability in its "seasonally stronger quarters."
In other words, Air Canada might lose money over the full year, but will be profitable in the second and third quarters when vacation travellers help to fill airplanes.
Analysts expect Air Canada to post a profit of roughly $18-million (Canadian) or 15 cents a share for the three months ended June 30, according to a poll by Thomson Financial/First Call. That compares with a loss of $108-million or 90 cents last year.
WestJet is expected to report a profit of $9.6-million or 13 cents a share, compared with a profit of $8.2-million or 12 cents last year.
Shares in both airlines traded much higher yesterday as broader markets soared. Air Canada shares were up 54 cents or 9 per cent to close at $6.55 on the Toronto Stock Exchange. WestJet shares were up $1.42 or 8 per cent to $19.75 on the TSX.
Analysts say Canadian carriers have benefited from a much stronger travel environment than in the United States, as well as the November bankruptcy of Canada 3000 Inc.
Air Canada has already reported that it filled 76 per cent of its seats in the second quarter, compared with a 73.4-per-cent load factor a year earlier when it lost $108-million. Passenger traffic was up 1.4 percentage points in the quarter.
"If you're looking at Air Canada, the numbers are higher year over year and that's because of Canada 3000, absolutely. They picked up most of the traffic from [Canada 3000], so that has been a very positive factor for them," Mr. Chamoun said.
However, he said it is Air Canada's success at cutting costs that will allow the Montreal-based airline to spin a small increase in passengers into a profit.
Air Canada's discount brand Tango has been a key factor in Air Canada's success at lowering costs. By removing business-class seats and cramming more passengers on each plane, Air Canada has been able to carry more people on fewer trips.
Copyright 2002 The Globe and Mail
nalysts see clearer skies in Canada.
They expect WestJet to report increased profit tomorrow, and are looking for Air Canada to return to profitability when it reports Thursday, after losing money in six successive quarters.
"When you look at Air Canada compared with the U.S. [full-service airlines], it is going to look extremely good because . . . none of them are even close to profitable," said Fadi Chamoun, an analyst with UBS Warburg Inc. in Toronto.
Air Canada president and chief executive officer Robert Milton has repeatedly said he expects Air Canada to return to profitability in its "seasonally stronger quarters."
In other words, Air Canada might lose money over the full year, but will be profitable in the second and third quarters when vacation travellers help to fill airplanes.
Analysts expect Air Canada to post a profit of roughly $18-million (Canadian) or 15 cents a share for the three months ended June 30, according to a poll by Thomson Financial/First Call. That compares with a loss of $108-million or 90 cents last year.
WestJet is expected to report a profit of $9.6-million or 13 cents a share, compared with a profit of $8.2-million or 12 cents last year.
Shares in both airlines traded much higher yesterday as broader markets soared. Air Canada shares were up 54 cents or 9 per cent to close at $6.55 on the Toronto Stock Exchange. WestJet shares were up $1.42 or 8 per cent to $19.75 on the TSX.
Analysts say Canadian carriers have benefited from a much stronger travel environment than in the United States, as well as the November bankruptcy of Canada 3000 Inc.
Air Canada has already reported that it filled 76 per cent of its seats in the second quarter, compared with a 73.4-per-cent load factor a year earlier when it lost $108-million. Passenger traffic was up 1.4 percentage points in the quarter.
"If you're looking at Air Canada, the numbers are higher year over year and that's because of Canada 3000, absolutely. They picked up most of the traffic from [Canada 3000], so that has been a very positive factor for them," Mr. Chamoun said.
However, he said it is Air Canada's success at cutting costs that will allow the Montreal-based airline to spin a small increase in passengers into a profit.
Air Canada's discount brand Tango has been a key factor in Air Canada's success at lowering costs. By removing business-class seats and cramming more passengers on each plane, Air Canada has been able to carry more people on fewer trips.
Copyright 2002 The Globe and Mail
Jul 30, 2002, 3:20 pm
#35
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 8,564
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">JAZZ...ZIP..TANGO..JETZ...
Don't undermine their core business!</font>
Don't undermine their core business!</font>
While I don't like all these spinoff carriers, I'd think selling mainline tickets really really cheap would do more to undermine their core business. It's probably safer to _pretend_ the savings on a Tango flight come from reduced frills and lowered costs instead of simply cutting prices, rather than offer special fares on the mainline carrier and reducing the perceived fair price.
andrew
Jul 30, 2002, 3:32 pm
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SYD
Posts: 2,437
well why not just introduce another Fare class to your Mainline.
Like scum class.
Where you get to eat crap served by rude FA's , the ptich on the seats are 6"
the airplanes are not cleaned.
you bags sometimes arrive
Hang on, now I am confusing the mailine buiness...sorry.
[This message has been edited by Ferrari (edited 07-30-2002).]
Like scum class.
Where you get to eat crap served by rude FA's , the ptich on the seats are 6"
the airplanes are not cleaned.
you bags sometimes arrive
Hang on, now I am confusing the mailine buiness...sorry.
[This message has been edited by Ferrari (edited 07-30-2002).]
Jul 30, 2002, 3:36 pm
#37
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 8,564
Exactly! Better to do that on another carrier (which I emphasize they're _not_) than to try and do it only to the new cheapy flyers on mainline.
By starting Tango, they can claim the lack of a Saturday requirement is somehow possible because they're selling you a bag of chips, or because they took out the J seats. Hard to do that on some cheap mainline seats.
andrew
By starting Tango, they can claim the lack of a Saturday requirement is somehow possible because they're selling you a bag of chips, or because they took out the J seats. Hard to do that on some cheap mainline seats.
andrew
Jul 30, 2002, 9:10 pm
#38
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,215
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AC*SE:
[b]The fact of the matter is that there are still people out there who pay full J.</font>
[b]The fact of the matter is that there are still people out there who pay full J.</font>
The point is that if there are large number of J seats remaining on a flight within a 7 days window, why does AC zero out C class? I don't care whether it's key route or not, if there are 20+ J seats open on an A340 with 5 days to go before departure, do they really expect to sell them all?
Honestly, how many SEs are there on each flight on average? I've never seen more than a couple. If we play by the rules by buying H or higher, I expect AC to be fair and release more C seat IF J is empty. I can understand if it's J3 or J5 and they zero it out but NOT WHEN it's J9++.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">But to put aside a dedicated inventory for upgrades implies that the airline will not sell those seats at full fare. That is not a sound practice.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Reward seats are a benefit bought and paid for, and the airline sets aside a percentage for that purpose. Upgrades are not. If they are available, they are a nice perk--but when SEs start to bank on upgrades, and no longer buy J fares, the upgrades are undercutting the product.</font>
No one is banking on upgrades here. We're upset at AC closing out C class when they know there are no way in hell they can sell all the remaining seats. It's not like there are 20 SEs on each flight, why can't they create a unique fare class for upgrades?
In reality, how many of AC's flights leave with a J cabin which everyone paid full J?
Jul 30, 2002, 10:27 pm
#40
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SYD
Posts: 2,437
Hey...
Its nothing more than I am entitled to under the rules, is it not.
It may be bad mouthing from where you sit, but from this side its how I see it.
Gazou2002.
I feel that you are a bit to close to make personel comments like this.
Its nothing more than I am entitled to under the rules, is it not.
It may be bad mouthing from where you sit, but from this side its how I see it.
Gazou2002.
I feel that you are a bit to close to make personel comments like this.
Jul 30, 2002, 10:44 pm
#44
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SYD
Posts: 2,437
I'm hold....
I will pass on 1A ....the foot rest does not full come up in that seat...
2A is the best on the 763, I think I have ////at the moment...That will do, can you get me a nice brunette along side.
Someone did seat a Italian model next to me once...
Gazou.
Got through, you guys have all gone home for the night I got the standby desk
Thank all the same , I appreciate it.
[This message has been edited by Ferrari (edited 07-30-2002).]
I will pass on 1A ....the foot rest does not full come up in that seat...
2A is the best on the 763, I think I have ////at the moment...That will do, can you get me a nice brunette along side.
Someone did seat a Italian model next to me once...
Gazou.
Got through, you guys have all gone home for the night I got the standby desk
Thank all the same , I appreciate it.
[This message has been edited by Ferrari (edited 07-30-2002).]
Jul 31, 2002, 7:49 pm
#45
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: YXU, ON Canada
Programs: AC LT E50K; AC*MM; SPG LT Gold
Posts: 4,665
Perhaps I'm too cynical, but I hit the other cap control barrier today. I'm flying revenue to LHR at the end of August and plan to take my daughter on a D award. ITN shows lots of capacity in Y on the return date of August 25th, and the seat maps on PTO show lots of unassigned seats. However, the SE desk reports all YYZ-LHR flights are oversold on that date and therefore there's nothing available for an award. The agent said that the flights were all way oversold, but I had no problem getting an H seat on a dummy booking on the AC website. I don't mind being refused an award if they are oversold, but it is frustrating to see that I can still easily get a revenue seat in a discounted fare class.