Capacity controls for SE's...Already here.!
Aug 3, 2002, 6:37 am
#61
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,187
Thank you for pinch-hitting while I was up in Ottawa yesterday, AC*SE. You are spot on again!
...even though EMPRESS and PARNEL just can't get it through their heads that yield management forecasts do not work anymore [for any airlines]. With far fewer J seats than carriers like UA on parallel routes into the Pacific, AC must hold back as much revenue seating as it can in the last week when most short notice seats are purchased and take the risk of not selling them, but knowing they will be filled by SE upgrades on day of flight
...that more people are buying Y and thus overbooking on some key routes has become the norm and not the exception because they cannot add more mainline capacity without ending up with half-empty planes [your extra section yesterday, EMPRESS, likely added to soak up overbooked pax off the morning flights], but this will continue unless AC removes J completely [which as I have explained more times than even I wish to recall, is why TANGO was introduced: so AC could add capacity where it was most needed, on discount Y seats. Unfortunately AC cannot trim back mainline any further without destroying frequency, which customers still demand, thus leaving lots of J seats open at departure to be filled with op upgrades and certificated upgrades;
...this zeroing out of C is only happening on two or three very important international routes at certain times of the year when passenger booking uncertainties are so great that they cannot afford not to have J left open. EMPRESS has often explained why the HKG route is often highly overbooked, only to have a much higher than normal noshow rate. I guess in this case, he is a victim of what is the norm in that part of the world. Don't blame AC if it has to twist the rules to play the game. Even FERRARI has acknowledged the situation he faced for his flight tonight was due, in part, to the wind down of AC's MEL service this week, though with its limited service to Australia, AC must protect revenue seats and have something available at the last minute for a variety of quite valid reasons.
Yes, maybe it is a betrayal of the upgrade benefit. But again, it is happening on less than 5% of AC's flights, and I dare say if it is only on these two major Pacific ones, then less than 1% of AC's daily departures.
As for AC ruing the loss of Elites and SEs, and the number dropping next year: that already happened and AC is quite prepared to live with the new numbers. I don't expect these will drop much beyond what they were last year, perhaps by another 5% to 10%. But it is also easier to manage fewer top tier elites, and keep the benefits available. Remember, even with two double Q-mile promos and dropping the actual qualifcation levels, the number of SEs dropped in half, and I suspect Elites went down maybe one-third. This is bad news if SEs were able to control their own travel, and were still going to spend the same amount of money elsewhere, but for those who dropped down a level -- PARNEL excepted -- they weren't. These were the thousands of high flying techies with Nortel, Uniphase and other .com companies that had to cut their travel, with little likelihood of returning in the near future.
I doubt there will be any widespread promos to get people to make Elite or SE by offering double Q-miles -- except on full fares and some targetted offers -- since AC needs another year to stabiliize the program and benefits, and evaluate the first full year post-9.11/NorTel meltdown. If your SEs are no longer high spenders, why maintain them and their benefits. Pare down to the true high yield customers, refine and improve your front cabin service [which AC is doing with a relaunch of J in the fall], and learn to live with smaller numbers.
...even though EMPRESS and PARNEL just can't get it through their heads that yield management forecasts do not work anymore [for any airlines]. With far fewer J seats than carriers like UA on parallel routes into the Pacific, AC must hold back as much revenue seating as it can in the last week when most short notice seats are purchased and take the risk of not selling them, but knowing they will be filled by SE upgrades on day of flight
...that more people are buying Y and thus overbooking on some key routes has become the norm and not the exception because they cannot add more mainline capacity without ending up with half-empty planes [your extra section yesterday, EMPRESS, likely added to soak up overbooked pax off the morning flights], but this will continue unless AC removes J completely [which as I have explained more times than even I wish to recall, is why TANGO was introduced: so AC could add capacity where it was most needed, on discount Y seats. Unfortunately AC cannot trim back mainline any further without destroying frequency, which customers still demand, thus leaving lots of J seats open at departure to be filled with op upgrades and certificated upgrades;
...this zeroing out of C is only happening on two or three very important international routes at certain times of the year when passenger booking uncertainties are so great that they cannot afford not to have J left open. EMPRESS has often explained why the HKG route is often highly overbooked, only to have a much higher than normal noshow rate. I guess in this case, he is a victim of what is the norm in that part of the world. Don't blame AC if it has to twist the rules to play the game. Even FERRARI has acknowledged the situation he faced for his flight tonight was due, in part, to the wind down of AC's MEL service this week, though with its limited service to Australia, AC must protect revenue seats and have something available at the last minute for a variety of quite valid reasons.
Yes, maybe it is a betrayal of the upgrade benefit. But again, it is happening on less than 5% of AC's flights, and I dare say if it is only on these two major Pacific ones, then less than 1% of AC's daily departures.
As for AC ruing the loss of Elites and SEs, and the number dropping next year: that already happened and AC is quite prepared to live with the new numbers. I don't expect these will drop much beyond what they were last year, perhaps by another 5% to 10%. But it is also easier to manage fewer top tier elites, and keep the benefits available. Remember, even with two double Q-mile promos and dropping the actual qualifcation levels, the number of SEs dropped in half, and I suspect Elites went down maybe one-third. This is bad news if SEs were able to control their own travel, and were still going to spend the same amount of money elsewhere, but for those who dropped down a level -- PARNEL excepted -- they weren't. These were the thousands of high flying techies with Nortel, Uniphase and other .com companies that had to cut their travel, with little likelihood of returning in the near future.
I doubt there will be any widespread promos to get people to make Elite or SE by offering double Q-miles -- except on full fares and some targetted offers -- since AC needs another year to stabiliize the program and benefits, and evaluate the first full year post-9.11/NorTel meltdown. If your SEs are no longer high spenders, why maintain them and their benefits. Pare down to the true high yield customers, refine and improve your front cabin service [which AC is doing with a relaunch of J in the fall], and learn to live with smaller numbers.
Aug 3, 2002, 7:13 am
#62
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 204
My advice is try an airport agent you know. When I worked for Ac(in the US) we knew all of our regular SE's by name and face, and some E's too. Go to an agent you are friendly with and her him/her book it, She/He wont care if its in J or C. I know i never did. I remember having an Elite i really liked and she booked about 6 legs with me that were 2 months away. I immediately upgraded every segment i could have.
I used to also upgrade for Se's and E's travelling same day on an eticket but book it in J so the agents at YYZ couldnt see they needed an upgrade Cert( i also took out the pull Cert Comment)
Bottom like make a good ticket agent your friend
I used to also upgrade for Se's and E's travelling same day on an eticket but book it in J so the agents at YYZ couldnt see they needed an upgrade Cert( i also took out the pull Cert Comment)
Bottom like make a good ticket agent your friend
Aug 3, 2002, 7:26 am
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,187
And fraud and theft from the company. I trust you no longer work for AC, and that the company you do work for has a higher level of monitoring your activities. It is one thing to do a good turn, within the rules, for a regular customer. It is quite another committing fraud and theft on their behalf. I suspect this is why AC has clamped down in recent months with memos to counter agents about such matters.
I have no problem with offering a good customer a courtesy upgrade at check-in. But to remove inventory months in advance to upgrade an inelligible person, or to change a C to a J so at chack-in a certificate is not required, is plane and simple THEFT, not good customer service!
I have no problem with offering a good customer a courtesy upgrade at check-in. But to remove inventory months in advance to upgrade an inelligible person, or to change a C to a J so at chack-in a certificate is not required, is plane and simple THEFT, not good customer service!
Aug 3, 2002, 11:48 am
#66
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SYD
Posts: 2,437
MereMin.
Being honest is not being up tight...
A perfect example of why AC cops so much flack.
We all want the rules to be fair and equal.
I'm glad to see you have left the company, and I'm sure that when you have finished your time in which ever federal penitentiary you are in you will reconsider the virtues of playing by the rules.
No one ever appreciates a cheat.
Goodbye !
Being honest is not being up tight...
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I remember having an Elite I really liked and she booked about 6 legs with me that were 2 months away. I immediately upgraded every segment I could have. </font>
We all want the rules to be fair and equal.
I'm glad to see you have left the company, and I'm sure that when you have finished your time in which ever federal penitentiary you are in you will reconsider the virtues of playing by the rules.
No one ever appreciates a cheat.
Goodbye !
Aug 3, 2002, 11:55 am
#67
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,215
MereMin, while your intentions might have been good, it's just totally not right. We played by the rules by buying H or higher tickets and calling in at 7 days to get our upgrades and we expect AC & their employees to play fair. By upgrading someone so far in advance, that is taking another seat away from the inventory. With the J cabins getting smaller and smaller, it means upgrades will even be harder to get.
I don't know how many of such employees there are out there, this is why it worries me if I had to wait til the day of departure to find out whether I will get the J seat because I just don't know whether the gate agent will play by the rules.
I supposed this is grounds for termination if AC does find out about it.
There are many good employees out there! Don't go create a bad name for them...
Bottom line is... if we play by the rules, AC better do the same.
[This message has been edited by Empress (edited 08-03-2002).]
I don't know how many of such employees there are out there, this is why it worries me if I had to wait til the day of departure to find out whether I will get the J seat because I just don't know whether the gate agent will play by the rules.
I supposed this is grounds for termination if AC does find out about it.
There are many good employees out there! Don't go create a bad name for them...
Bottom line is... if we play by the rules, AC better do the same.
[This message has been edited by Empress (edited 08-03-2002).]
Aug 3, 2002, 10:39 pm
#69
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,452
Empress - I sympathise with you, and agree that upgrades are not "freebees", but are earned customer loyalty benefits that airlines give out to encourage passengers who give them disproportionate revenue to continue to do so. Upgrades should not be given out if they cannot be used, or if AC's intention is to manipulate availability to restrict eligible passenger's access to a J class seat.
However, the facts remain:
It is clear to me that AC does not see eye to eye with you. They do not see the big picture here, even after you met with the man that runs Aeroplan, and articulated your thoughts to him.
Many people that purchase J and F fares have cut their losses and now collect on other programs. Perhaps you should accept that AC does not wish to recognise your business in such a manner. You are beating your head against a wall with them, an doing so over what is a mediocre product at best.
I would suggest you look at flying CX and collecting on AAdvantage. You would get access to better lounges as an Exec Plat, confirmable upgrades on CX (by mileage redemption) and 100% bonus on all flights, along with the ability to convert your electronic upgrades into miles. Combine that with the CX Leverage program and periodic AA SWUs, not to mention a superior J product with CX, and you would be much further ahead. Why bother with AC?
However, the facts remain:
- AC is reducing J class capacity
- AC charges a premium-level fare for an inferior product
- AC is treating SE members that book economy tickets as if they do not represent an important source of revenue.
- AC wants upgrades to be a randomly accessable Aeroplan benefit and not a travel management tool.
It is clear to me that AC does not see eye to eye with you. They do not see the big picture here, even after you met with the man that runs Aeroplan, and articulated your thoughts to him.
Many people that purchase J and F fares have cut their losses and now collect on other programs. Perhaps you should accept that AC does not wish to recognise your business in such a manner. You are beating your head against a wall with them, an doing so over what is a mediocre product at best.
I would suggest you look at flying CX and collecting on AAdvantage. You would get access to better lounges as an Exec Plat, confirmable upgrades on CX (by mileage redemption) and 100% bonus on all flights, along with the ability to convert your electronic upgrades into miles. Combine that with the CX Leverage program and periodic AA SWUs, not to mention a superior J product with CX, and you would be much further ahead. Why bother with AC?