Johnlathropa

Outbound from Toronto Friday afternoon, inbound Sunday morning, managed to snag a single A seat on both 763 flights which at least weren't changed to the horrific jammed 767's with cramped 2-2-2 seating.

The FA's outbound were reasonably pleasant but the one on our side hopelessly untrained and rather "jerky" in her actions/reactions. I noticed the one for the other side asked her pax if they wanted more nuts, another drink, whatever - whereas ours brought whatever only when asked. Why AC can't heat nuts is beyond me. Anyway "nuts" is a misnomer, as I notice they are now downgraded to a few nuts with some trail mixture thrown in. I asked her which wine she had - not a clue. The whites inadequately chilled: also infuriating. When she asked "red or white ?" I replied "What's for dinner ?" and she said "Salad for now and then we'll bring your main course." Duh....Which was a horrible casserole of chicken breast stuffed with spinach - blah...dessert, one cheese, a few grapes already on tray. No style, no finesse, no taste. O for the good old days of a real First Class service.

Return was horrific - breakfast rolls NOT heated at all. Didn't even bother to complain. The in-charge leant over to close a window (not the one beside me but the one up) and said "I hope you don't mind" to which I answered "I do very much" but he affected not to hear and kept walking. I asked the FA serving breakfast who was the in-charge and she said it was he - what was the problem. But the minute I said I objected to his attitude and to flying in the dark she too affected deafness and repeated three times would I like another muffin ! Has anyone observed - and it's not unique to AC either - how today's "service" personnel take absolute personal umbrage at any complaint at all ?! And you have to be careful articulating complaints in the post-9/11 environment as I sense the FA's would just love to claim you were interfering with their duties, out of control, etc. Especially when confronted with someone more articulate than they - and dead right on the issue.

Anyway breakfast was disgusting-tasting tea with that bitter American-style tea bag or unclean pot after taste - horrible - the aforementioned cold rolls/scones, juice out of a can and the most ill-composed egg dish en casserole with scrambled eggs containing two stalks of something, limp sliced potatoes and a small crepe with apricot and sour cream (not bad) but all jammed together and luke warm.

So much for my $4000 + experience. AC I hate you and can hardly wait for real competition so I can pay you back for the fifth-class food and service.

Shareholder

Inconsistency of inflight service and seating is AC's biggest problem now. And it really shows on flights like yours. Attention to such details is what makes BA and CX such superior inflight experiences. Sometimes I wish AC would send most of their FAs on a long haul in front with these carriers' so real inflight service can been witnessed and appreciated.

I have not, fortunately, had as bad an experience as yours appeared to be, but always notice those little details that cumulatively make one wonder about whether it is AC's training or just the result of an occasional off-day.

Then again, isn't it one of those "laws of life" that observes service will always appear to be better on the other side of the airplane from where you are sitting...

I'llMissCP

This experience is exactly what I have had on my last 10 trans-cons on AC. It is now known as their trade mark service. The only consistant component is the rudeness.

I have not flown AC paid J for six months now, and I am not surprised that nothing has changed.

B747-437B

I flew YYZ-YEG-YYC-YVR-YYZ this same weekend - my first time on AC in almost 10 years - and I was surprised at how GOOD the service was, even in Y. I was surprised to even get a meal on a short 4hr hop like YVR-YYZ. Guess I'm used to US carriers! It's all relative....

CPwingwalker

Have done this route approx. 4 roundtrips since March. Service is a variation on fair to bad to ugly and back as has been reported above. There have been one or two (over 8 flights) FAs that were competent and apologetic for ACs cutbacks in J service offerings. One of the "uglies" actually challenged my humorous musings about the cutbacks by saying that the cold rolls and non descript quiche/omelette served on a bare tray table WAS there new upgraded service! Even after I gently reminded her that since her manifest showed I was SE perhaps I might know something about the ups and downs of J service. She actually admitted to never reading the manifest! Truly ignorant and rude.

B747-437: The YVR-YYZ transcon is Canada's equivalent (if not exactly in distance certainly in terms of pssgr loads) of LAX-JFK. On which route the US carriers run an upgraded 3-class service. So please excuse us Canucks if we do have higher expectations of our flagship domestic route. Happy Canada Day!

Guava

Just thought to share about my recent trip from YYZ to LHR. It's not exactly a domestic transcontinental J but the duration of the flight is roughly the same as a domestic transcontinental.

The last few days of June can be a real headach for air travel especially on a weekend flight to Europe. Well, I should have seen it coming because both the flights out of YUL and YYZ are horribly delayed.

Nevertheless, we get into Europe in one piece that's the end result. Now, we have the beginning and the end but what about the in-between? I can sum it up in one sentence: It feels like a domestic J class service!

SERVICE

- Lukewarm purser
- one attentive FA, the rest so so
- Attention to details is lacking
- pre-flight drinks was offered

CATERING

- Beautiful menu with attractive words/description
- Food that looks better in writing than eating
- Portion were small
- Very simple if not 'Cheap' ingredients

EQUIPMENT

- VOD
- A333 aircraft
- Good recline for J
- No video Games
- Very good quality of entertaiment in general

---------------------------------------

I have to ask myself whether it's because it's Summer that Air Canada is treating its J cabin including int'l flights like craps. The seating itself is of good standard and you won't be bored on the flight. However, catering is unbeliveably bad. For example, the appetizer was supposed to be Lobster Medaillon and Tiger Shrimp Salad with cabbage. Yet, the plate really is full of cabbage and other non-shrimp like ingredients. There was maybe one shrimp and some residus of losbter. The main meal is very similar to the casserole type of dish served on domestic transcontinental although sligthly larger and a bit better presented. Can you imagine a Int'l Business Class meal not served on a plate? This is a 7:15PM flight, not a red-eye. It makes me wonder how the hell is AC going to compete against BA who flies out of the same airport at the same time using bigger and maybe nicer equipments? While the flight is heavy at the back, it is not even 1/2 full in the front. According to ITN, BA's flights same day was pretty much sold out in J and quasi-full in F. I can understand better now because AC's J service to LHR is so bad that catering and service wise, I might just fly another carrier in Y and I will get comparable level in service and catering. Overall, a very disappointing flight - not up to what you would expect for an Int'l J class flight.

Take my advice: If you have choice, avoid fly AC in J as it is not worth your money. Air Canada Executive First is really an upgraded Economy Class with bigger seats.

After Burner

Guava, I disagree with your overall assessment. I fly the YYZ-LHR route on AC constantly and, generally, I'm quite happy with the service. Once in a while I've had "surly" service, but that's an exception.

I can't argue with you about the food, though. It is pretty mediocre. But, hey, it's airline food. What do you expect. I've tried BA on this route a few times in F. Their food was pretty bad too.

Andrew Yiu

I think meals and service on international flight have been pretty good and consistent all year. It's the domestic food that really needs upgrading.

Johnlathropa

After posting this message in early July, I sent the text, absent the last sentence, to Air Canada "Customer Solutions." An acknowledgement came, I must admit, fairly quickly.

But today came the "reply," dated July 25, and reading as follows:

"Thank you for contacting us regarding our service. We always appreciate hearing from our valued customers. We are sorry that we failed to meet your expectations and regreat the inconvenience you experiences. We fully realize that as one of our premium customers, your affinity with our airline allows you a refined sense of what constitutes a good travel experience. Your feedback helps us to better understand what our customers value most in service and product enhancements. To this end, your suggestions and recommendations will be given full consideration in our ongoing product review and development efforts. We want to assure you, Mr X, that we remain committed to providing you with our highest standard of service. Your continued loyalty and invaluable feedback are the cornerstone of our achievements. We thank you."

It was signed by one Irene Riediger, sans title.

Not only is the English dodgy, verging on the grandiloquent (and suggesting in sentence three that my "refined sense" of travel derives from my patronizing their wretched airline (which I am sure wasn't intended, but is an example of what happens when corporate-speak and computers meld) but it does NOT address the specific complaints in my letter.

If this is how AC treats its premium pax, God help them when real competition for the business passenger emerges. I am more tempted than ever to fly to US and internationally on other airlines wherever possible.

I returned the letter in today's post, writing on it: "This is not an answer to my letter - you have no idea how to treat your premium customers - service, food and comfort have all gone down down down. This letter is an insult !"

I shall not hold my breath for a substantive reply.

Question: shall I escalate this to the Ombudsman or would I be wasting my time ?

Biggles

Yesterday I flew "J" on 5T. It was a Fokker F28 with 6 leather seats in J. This was a one hour and fifteen minute flight. Preflight drink was offered with a dish of mixed nuts.
Bar service as soon as we were off the ground. Meal consisted of a hot sandwhich, Brie and ham, and chicken with blue cheese a large salad and a huge slice of cheese cake.
Wine, coffee and liquors were served.

It was just great service. All of this on a 2.00 p.m. 1 1/2 hour flight.

The A.C. flight from YEG to YYZ was 45 minutes late. "J" was full and had 3 S.E.'s.
Pleasant surprise, instead of the usual cold chicken or salmon it was a choice of Beef Wellington or Pork Tenderloin. Perhaps Salmon and Chicken are becoming an endangered species thanks to Air Canada.

I would highly recommend Canadian North. The service is just like the "Good Old Days" on Canadian.

Biggles

Ace Cdn

alot of people who worked for CDN now work for Canadian North that is why you see the
similarity in service.

Guy Betsy

Having not flown AC regularly in the past 8 years, and only recently been picking up a few flights here and there, I am generallt surprised at how GOOD AC's inflight service is.

As B747-437B pointed out, American carriers pale in service standards and quality when compared to Air Canada. If anyone is threatening to fly an american carrier over AC, by all means go. Even in First Class on 3-class transcon , no US airline has come close to what AC does.

For example, I did SEA-SAN last month in First Class on ALASKA. 2.5 hour flight and all I received was a drink and 'warm nuts' served in a plastic container.

I flew YYZ-YUL today on AC. 1 hour flight in J and was served a hot breakfast burritto. Okay it was a scrambled egg and cheese tortilla wrap, but hey, it was FOOD!

Too late to aim for any status this year... so I'll attempt to make SE for 2004.

Andrew Yiu

You have to consider that there are a lot of upgrades on US carriers' F/J so you really can't blame them for not offering something.

On the other hand, on a transcon YYZ-YVR, people in J are paying at least $1000 (SE - H class) all the way up to $4000 (full fare J).

So based on this, I would expect at least a small meal on a 1 hr shuttle flight and a better meal than it is now on transcon flights.