gglave

How would Starbucks fare if people were able to step up to a single counter and choose to buy an 8 oz latte from either Starbucks, Tim Hortons, McDonalds, Dunkin' Doughnuts or Second Cup with all the 8 oz latte prices listed in a row, sorted cheapest to most expensive?

Do you think the 'superior product' found at Starbucks would cause their option to continue to be chosen, most of the time?

rankourabu

Who has 28" pitch?
TS has 31/32/33 on their A330s

Crap food? Have you had AC Y TATL food lately?

TCX, before, when they were Canadian Affair - used to run 35" leg room 757s to YYZ for many summers.

exbayern

And TS has a strong French customer base, so AC continues to lose the French market on the CDG-YUL flight. I am regularly amazed at how often I see TS advertising here, and TS's broad coverage across France.

For the French leisure customer booking an economy ticket, I think that there really is no comparison between the two.

rankourabu

Didnt Corsair also offer a free train ticket to the airport from anywhere in France for France-Canada bookings?

exbayern

I believe so, similar to how LH can be booked with train. Taking the example of someone in southern France, options are

• train to CDG, fly with AC (or take non *A flight to CDG)
• train to CDG, fly Corsair
• fly non-stop from MRS on TS

Non stop, better seat, lower price - not really too difficult for the occasional flyer to make a choice.

Jagboi

I suspect it would. An example is in my office building there was a Timothy's coffee and it was moderately busy, but never a line up. It closed and a Starbucks replaced it; now there is always a line up and it is much busier than I've ever seen before. Obviously it's a more appealing product that people will pay compared to the previous offering.

kwflyer

Comparing a perceived non commodity product (Coffee) to a perceived commodity product (Air travel) is not a good comparison.

People pay more for brands that deliver a consistent (and authentic) experience, time after time. Either through a higher price (starbucks) or more frequent trips (Timmies) or (a marketers wet dream) both.

Spounce

Coffee and air travel are different things. Air travel is generally viewed as a commodity.

The buying decisions of the travelling public and of those who pay for their tickets have made it obvious that very few people are interested in paying for extra comfort or for frills of any sort.

Tedgrrrr

I completely disagree. I think the problem is (and I was tempted to start a thread on this) is that AC (and probably most airlines) always take it to the extreme.

For example, i'd pay $100 more each way for Flex on a North American flight without second thought. But, AC wants something in the range of $150-$200 per flight.

If same day changes were $25, I would probably do one each way on every single trip. For $75, no thank you, I'd rather spend that money at the airport.

LMU? Sure sounds great. i'd pay $200 to upgrade each on a trans-con. AC wants $500ish.

MLL? I'd pay and encourage others to pay $30. AC wants $50+ (right?) Hell, i used to pay $25 or $30 to use Plaza at YYZ and always considered it money well spent.

By way of examples showing that I sometimes buy "frills". on UA now I usually pick the flexible travel option (free same day changes) - which is $25 or so more each way. On US, I regularly upgrade because they charge a fraction of the price of LMU's.

So I don't think it's that people aren't interested in paying for "comforts or frills of any sort", it's that the price for these comforts and frills is completely unreasonable.

Jagboi

That's where AC's marketing has failed to make their product a non-commodity and differentiate it from the other choices in the marketplace and make it worth more to the consumer.

Companies like Morgan and Bentley in the auto world have done an excellent job at this. You can't just buy a Morgan off the showroom floor, there is a 5 year waiting list, and people do wait. In may ways it's probably an inferior car to a Ford (ride, comfort etc) and will get me to the grocery store just as well as a Ford, but people will pay a lot more for the perceived superior qualities of the Morgan.

Closer to home, Westjet has done a great job, many will pay more for a WS flight over AC because they feel that when interruptions happen WS will do a better job at recovery than AC will. Doesn't matter if it's true, that's the perception and people will pay for it.

Gus2013

Strange analogy... isn't that exactly how supermarket shelves, Amazon, and a thousand other marketplaces work?

canadiancow

If LMUs were that cheap, eUps would be useless. I'd rather have them more expensive.

Also, I recently discovered that at least through the mobile app, *G gets free SDC on United. I was able to earn more miles, get home earlier than scheduled, and avoid a delayed flight because of this

Tedgrrrr

Weird, I'll need to try that!!! Could be very useful. But you're sort of missing the point. I'm just saying that AC charges too much for anything above bare minimum and that's why no one pays for any extras.

bocastephen

Well it's been awhile since I flew TS and the last time was an A310 between PBI and YYZ where I was crammed into a tiny seat, served what appeared to be a fried mouse pretending to be a chicken leg, and then got into a shoving match with a french canadian FA who tried to yank my blanket away when we were descending (for security reasons - I won the match and an english canadian FA told the rude fa to knock it off, but no one apologized). After that, I vowed never to fly such a trashy airline again, and my 12+ year record still stands.

However, they are still a viable alternative for budget customers who want simple, low priced non-stop flights to key destinations for leisure travel - and this is apparently what the HD is aimed at, although 'real travelers' are the unfortunate casualties of this market decision.

rankourabu

so you flew them once in 2002, and this is what you base your opinion on????

This is not the same airline, and they actually carry more people across the Atlantic each summer than AC does @:-)

Using that logic, I'd never step on Aeroflot or Air China - both vastly superior to AC/UA/AA and the likes in 2014, but probably not in 2002.


Whats a "real traveler" - someone who flies around for work only?
I dont think so. That may be a frequent flyer, but certainly not a traveler.