A key change this year appears to be the premium being placed on MLL access. The 2 certs in the kit for SE instead of 4 helps confirm this.

Maybe AC's marketing folks figure that the average Joe Blow E/SE values MLL access above all else and decided to make this more exclusive.

I'd maintain the average elite pax wouldn't know a V fare if it hit them in the head and cares little about reward sales and reward ticket change fees. A good number of these folks may not know about the lost upgrade at time of booking benefit for SE (moot for E).

Pretend you are an AC marketing person: How would you explain this?

That's easy. It's an "enhancement" to the Aeroplan program.

Wait... you must be kidding right? Assuming one doesn't know anything about V class then. When an Elite calls up Air Canada and ask for the lowest upgradeable fare between YYZ-YVR, AC tells them $950 with taxes, they paid $750 in 2001. [They will now think you mean I have to pay more for an upgrade and only confirm the upgrade 2 days prior?] When a SuperElite does the same thing, they will even get told that they won't get their upgrade until 72 hours prior to departure. [They will now be thinking so I had to pay more and I don't get the upgrade until 72 hours prior?] Another scenario is a SuperElite will continue to buy the V fares that they've been buying throughout 2001 thinking that they can continue to get upgrade but turns out that they can't. You think they won't notice anything?

I think ACORD is probably right. With the variability of fares, who's going to notice a fare of $750 being increased to $950. YYZ-MIA RT J class cost $784 in 1994. Now it's $2700. I've come to view 50%, or even 200%, increases in fares as normal.

If a traveller consistently ask for the lowest upgradeable fare when they book their flights, they will definitely notice the differences. If you do this often enough, you can tell the difference but of course you don't because you only buy full fare.

Are you kidding? It's always full fares (M/Y/J) that go up the most, and I certainly do notice that. For full fare customers, a $200 increase can happen 3 times in one year. It's almost laughable when the budget traveller complains about paying a measly annual $200 increase.

You've come to view fare increases of 50% to 200 % as normal AB. Do you budget on this annually or over 7 years?

Certainly fares do and should increase to pay for a quality product. Few of us however can afford increases however in excess of the C.P.I., if that means we shouldn't have been flying than likely we will fly less.
But I really questionif the current product from YYZ to MIA is consistent with that in 1994.

Would you really expect the YYZ-LHR route to have increases of 50% to 200%, Afterburner?

The budget traveller likely does not have a measly $200. Our sitter's spouse lost his job
for example and they amongst many are finding things very tight.

Maybe that is why Southwest is so successful, low fares for John Doe.

It's all about relativity.

If you make $1 million a year, then you can afford to buy full fare whenever you want to fly J class. Then what's $600 increase per year per ticket to you? Those that buys full fare on a consistent basis are likely those that does not have to pay from their own pockets or are wealthy enough to do so.

If you make $100K a year and want to fly J class, then you definitely will buy the lowest upgradeable fare instead of a full fare J. In this case, $200 increase a year PER TICKET is not insignificant.

I maintain my stance that people will notice the new upgrade policy.

The increases have cost me a bit more, but I adjust my travel patterns accordingly. I used to do the YYZ-MIA trip weekly in paid J. Now I do the trip about 12 times annually and I never buy a J ticket. The current YYZ-MIA product is not consistent with the 1994 product. They used to serve meals back then.

As for YYZ-LHR, yes, dramatic fare increases will not surprise me. The fare has increased from $4,500 to $6,000 in the past 12 months. I'm worried that very soon it will be comparable to equivalent US fares (eg. JFK-LHR) at around $11,000. But it doesn't matter. The $4,500 to $6,000 increase stopped me from buying J tickets anyway.

But, Empress, you're not talking about an increase in fares, you're talking about an increase in upgradeable fares. I'll attempt to think like AC management for a moment: if a $200 fare increase matters that much to you, then you must be in an economic underclass, so why are we offering a loyalty incentive by allowing you to upgrade?

Relations were going from YYZ to Los Cabos in Mexico last week. They always fly J. AC priced it out at $5,200 per person with a long layover at DFW.

They asked for my assistance, and I located a fare in F t on AA thru ORD for $2,200, with a 1 and half layover in ORD. Naturally they took that. They have prefer AC but 6K is 6K, they found both flights to Mexico excellent. Oh and by the way, so they didn't miss the fligt at ORD if there was a storm in YYZ they spent the night at the ORD Hilton to split up the flight.

You're right Afterburner if they view Empress as an underclass then forget him. But he should fly transcon. on US airlines and be upgradable from any fare.

If I was Empress I would fly SEA - YYZ on some US line and then fax his ticket to AC, saying this is net income not on their bottom line. Maybe he could even try Envoy class.

Oh wow, then you're really being ripped off! I fly YYZ-MIA on AA about 4 times a year (upgraded to F from the lowest fare, of course) and I always get a full meal service.

I'll use myself as an example when it comes to fare increases. I noticed the fares to YUL work out to be around $50 more than they were in late 2000. I responded to this increase by no longer flying to YUL. I just didn't see the value in flying there when I could fly to South Florida for almost the same price.

[This message has been edited by FlyerAl (edited 01-15-2002).]