After Burner

How exactly did you arrive at those numbers, Ferrari? Where in the US did you live?

MoreMiles

Let's leave CPYVR alone... he is trying to help.

It's the fault of Air Canada executives, making this ridiculous increase. Keep in mind that this change fee was only $70 a couple of years ago.

The airlines in US give elites upgrades without the need for coupons/stickers. Why wouldn't AC follow?

What is next? Are they going to charge us aircraft washroom facility fee, reservation processing fee, and silly things like that?

I'm filing a complaint to the Toronto BBB. Hopefully, AC will reconsider this once enough people voiced their complaints.

FlyerGoldII

1. To After Burner's comments, under what circumstances is Y fare higher than J (or C) class fare? Under what circumstances would a passenger want to choose a full fare economy ticket, rather than a business class ticket, under these circumstances?

2. I am an Aeroplan Elite member - I am wondering what to do with my system-wide upgrades (that was not a problem with the CP version, which could be used to upgrade from discounted economy within North America).

The cheapest fare to upgrade is M. What is the most expensive Y versus the cheapest M fare, for example from Toronto to Vancouver, or Toronto to LA? What is the cheapest M fare on these routes than will allow a change in the flight, without a change/penalty fee?

FlyerAl

The only airlines I know of that have that generous of an upgrade policy are CO, NW, and HP.

AA, UA, and US elites have to earn or purchase their upgrade certs/stickers. However one can upgrade from any fare, thus eliminating the need to purchase a higher fare for the mere chance of an upgrade. US is generous with SWUs - by giving even the lowest level elite (25,000/yr) 2 one-way confirmables from any published fare.

Academic

FGII: You need to distinguish between SW certs that allow for TransPac/TransAt upgrades from Y or M, and NA certs that do allow you to upgrade from V,H,B,T,M,Y. If you're travelling in N. America there's no problem upgrading from these discounted fares as an Elite using NA certs. If you want to upgrade internationally, then you'd need to have an M or Y fare. I have been also able to use CP SW stickers for N. American flights, but I don't know how AC treats their SW certs.

After Burner

If you want to upgrade internationally you must buy a Y class ticket. M class is not offered on international fares (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). The M class eligibility on SW's only applies to North America.

FlyerGoldII: How would an Elite use a SW coupon? Upgrade an international flight, of course. This saves tons of money.

FlyerGoldII

To respond to Academic's posting, I of course know (for an Elite) what one can do with a SW certificate vs a NA certificate, and at what fares.

My question relates to what happens when my NA certificates run out (before I get more with my additional flying of the appropriate threshold mileage levels). I would only have SWs left. I would likely only use them, if I could, for upgrades on flights within North America.

With CP SW stickers (for Gold members), one could (within NA) upgrade on the same fares, as with the North American stickers. This is not the case for SW certificates for upgrading within North America, for Aeroplan Elites. My question related to the fares that I could upgrade on those 2 routes with SWs, if I could not, or would not, use my NA certificates.

After Burner

You can only upgrade full fare economy (M class) with SW coupons for North America.

Someone might argue that Y class is full fare economy, but nobody ever buys AC Y class for North America routing (well, almost nobody).

FlyerGoldII

To respond to After Burner's comments, about using them for international versus North American flights, it depends on how you look at the question - in terms of saving money.

An upgradeable fare on an international route (which is potentially upgradeable) costs much more than on a North American route (assuming that we are talking about using Elite SW certificates only, on either of the 2 routes). However, the amount saved on an international route (in absolute dollars) would of course be more than what is saved on the North American route.

Therefore, to use my SW certificates, I would have to spend more on international routes, to be able to save more on international routes (at least in absolute terms). AfterBurner, you would have to tell me whether the percentage savings by getting an upgrade on a appropriate economy class fare is more on an international route than on a North American route?

After Burner

AfterBurner, you would have to tell me whether the percentage savings by getting an upgrade on a appropriate economy class fare is more on an international route than on a North American route?

You bet it is!

After Burner

Here's an example:

LGA-YYZ-LGA M Class $1308 J Class $1574
LHR-YYZ-LHR Y Class $1535 J Class $7612

Do the math!

[This message has been edited by After Burner (edited 03-06-2001).]

FlyerGoldII

Thank you, After Burner.

I did not realize that a Y class transatlantic fare is virtually the same as a M class transcontinental fare?

FlyerGoldII

Thank you, After Burner. I am surprised that the Y fares transatlantic can be virtually the same as the M fares transcontinental?

By the way, all the fares you quote are return fares? The reason I ask, is with the Roots Air advertisements in the newspaper, it is quoting a full fare economy trip between Toronto and Vancouver to be over $3,000, on AC.

Ken hAAmer

A pure "Y" would never be more than a pure "J" fare. But you might find a J1 or J8 or JP fare that is higher than the Y fare. Usually, you'll also find other Y fares, like Y1, Y8, or YP, that are lower than the equivalent J codes. These are often listed as "special" fares, but are offered year round, and have identical fare rules to "regular" fares.

Actually most of the US carriers offer free upgrades, even the big ones. You just have to know how they work.

On certain routes, they will offer "YUP" fares, which is a Y fare that will put you in the F class cabin. (These Y fares are much lower than in Canada, primarily due to competitive reasons, I suspect.)

On American Airlines, the "upgrade" comes out of the "A" inventory (similar to AC's C), and is available on certain routes (Mobile, AL to Baltimore, MD is one.) TWA offers the same type of upgrade on a lot more routes, including Vancouver to St. Louis.

The actual AC fares are Y1-$3089, J1-$3611, Y-$8513. There are no apparent differences between the fares rules for Y1 and Y.

Andrew Yiu

If you want to upgrade internationally you must buy a Y class ticket. M class is not offered on international fares (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). The M class eligibility on SW's only applies to North America.

Actually, there are M class on international flights, mainly for flights originating in Europe to Canada.

In fact, there are no M fares for domestic Canada flights {i.e. YYZ-YVR) and there are M fares for US destinations except HNL.

So if you want to use your Elite SWU, either use it for US destination @ M fares or originate in Europe @ M fares or anywhere else @ Y fare.

Some examples are:
FRA-YYZ rt @ $1081 MLPX
LHR-YYZ rt @ $1161 MLXPXGB1
CDG-YYZ rt @ $1773 MKXPX6
MUC-YYZ rt @ $1081 MLPX