The Idiocy of United Airlines(Canada ETA)
Nov 11, 2016, 4:54 pm
#1
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The Idiocy of United Airlines(Canada ETA)
As you may know, Canada recently started to require ETA for visa-exempt countries (critical point here is that it is for visa exempt countries and not for Canadian citizens or permanent residents).
I travel to Houston a lot, which is a United hub and I am a Canadian permanent resident. In the last 2 occasions, including one of them just 20 minutes ago, when I go to the terminal and try to print my ticket, it doesn't allow me and asks for a United representative. And the United representatives are trying to deny my ticket saying I need an ETA. I have to spend 1 hour every time, trying to control my anger towards this idiocy to explain that I AM A PERMANENT CANADIAN RESIDENT, and I don't need a freaking ETA. One time they called the"international" hotline which they said is for internal purposes only(so they didn't give me the phone number) and the guy on the line said I am not allowed to board the plane without an ETA. Seriously, how uninformed can you be or even lack the basic thought process that a permanent resident doesn't need anything?
I tried calling every United hotline and I still have to go through this every time I fly. I am seriously considering going to the United HQ and just rush in to the CEO's office. Is there a phone number I can call to tell someone with actual power that every employee in the Houston IAH is unaware what ETA is?
And by the way, while I am extremely angry, knowing that anger doesn't get you far, in both instances I didn't raise my voice or tried to argue. So it wasn't a case where I triggered an employee or anything.
Unfortunately I have to fly with United or Air Canada every time since they are the ones that offer direct flights only. I will never fly on United anymore and stick to Air Canada, at least from the US to Canada. I know my 2 flights a month don't mean much but still this is the least I can do. But I want to fix this idiocy for other fellow travelers regardless.
Thank you for reading my rant, sorry if I offended anyone.
I travel to Houston a lot, which is a United hub and I am a Canadian permanent resident. In the last 2 occasions, including one of them just 20 minutes ago, when I go to the terminal and try to print my ticket, it doesn't allow me and asks for a United representative. And the United representatives are trying to deny my ticket saying I need an ETA. I have to spend 1 hour every time, trying to control my anger towards this idiocy to explain that I AM A PERMANENT CANADIAN RESIDENT, and I don't need a freaking ETA. One time they called the"international" hotline which they said is for internal purposes only(so they didn't give me the phone number) and the guy on the line said I am not allowed to board the plane without an ETA. Seriously, how uninformed can you be or even lack the basic thought process that a permanent resident doesn't need anything?
I tried calling every United hotline and I still have to go through this every time I fly. I am seriously considering going to the United HQ and just rush in to the CEO's office. Is there a phone number I can call to tell someone with actual power that every employee in the Houston IAH is unaware what ETA is?
And by the way, while I am extremely angry, knowing that anger doesn't get you far, in both instances I didn't raise my voice or tried to argue. So it wasn't a case where I triggered an employee or anything.
Unfortunately I have to fly with United or Air Canada every time since they are the ones that offer direct flights only. I will never fly on United anymore and stick to Air Canada, at least from the US to Canada. I know my 2 flights a month don't mean much but still this is the least I can do. But I want to fix this idiocy for other fellow travelers regardless.
Thank you for reading my rant, sorry if I offended anyone.
Nov 11, 2016, 4:58 pm
#2
Join Date: Aug 2015
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I would consider filing a DOT complaint, and printing the written response to bring with you on future UA flights (if you consider using them again). Still not ideal, but would make things a lot easier.
Nov 11, 2016, 5:07 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 7
Thank you, I will do that.
Oh and I miss the part about the United representative saying that this is all because my actual passport is from Turkey and I am from Middle East. This isn't an ETA issue at all he said. Right, but I was flying twice a month for the last 6 months without any issues and all of a sudden it is because of my passport? So perfect ending to a perfect story. He even said this again AFTER I received my ticket. At that point I just smiled at him and left.
Edit: By the way, I didn't write this to cry racism or whatever. I don't think he was racist, or at least I hope so. I just wrote this down to prove my point that they are so clueless about everything.
Oh and I miss the part about the United representative saying that this is all because my actual passport is from Turkey and I am from Middle East. This isn't an ETA issue at all he said. Right, but I was flying twice a month for the last 6 months without any issues and all of a sudden it is because of my passport? So perfect ending to a perfect story. He even said this again AFTER I received my ticket. At that point I just smiled at him and left.
Edit: By the way, I didn't write this to cry racism or whatever. I don't think he was racist, or at least I hope so. I just wrote this down to prove my point that they are so clueless about everything.
Nov 11, 2016, 5:37 pm
#4
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Did you have a printout of the official rules handy?
Did they perhaps misunderstand you or the rules and confuse legal permanent resident of Canada with legal permanent resident of the US? (afaik, US green card holders do need the ETA).
Did they perhaps misunderstand you or the rules and confuse legal permanent resident of Canada with legal permanent resident of the US? (afaik, US green card holders do need the ETA).
Nov 11, 2016, 5:44 pm
#5
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 402
As far as I'm aware, there is no provision in the RES system of any airline to validate residency status. You are required to present your PR or PRTD to the airline in order to board a flight to Canada. You don't state this, but do you show your PR card to the UA reps? That should clear it up immediately.
Plus I would give the UA agents a little leeway here. There is no way they can know all the rules and regs for entry into every foreign country. Therefore they rely on the RES system to enforce the entry requirements. The agents and the airline can get into serious trouble by allowing a passenger to board without the proper documents in place. If all they know is you are a Turkish citizen traveling to Canada, you need a visa. Unless you show proof of residency, how are they supposed know?
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp
Plus I would give the UA agents a little leeway here. There is no way they can know all the rules and regs for entry into every foreign country. Therefore they rely on the RES system to enforce the entry requirements. The agents and the airline can get into serious trouble by allowing a passenger to board without the proper documents in place. If all they know is you are a Turkish citizen traveling to Canada, you need a visa. Unless you show proof of residency, how are they supposed know?
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp
Nov 11, 2016, 5:49 pm
#6
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: if it's Thursday, this must be Belgium
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This is what the Timaticweb rules say when you put in Passport/Nationality: Turkey; Residence: Canada (Permanent residence):
Perhaps the lack of explicit coverage of PR documentation is why you encounter confusion by the agents?
Summary
Conditional, The traveler will need to hold travel documents as detailed below.
Canada - Destination Passport
The following regulations apply to children/minors:
Parent(s) traveling with a child under 18 years are strongly advised to hold documentation containing evidence that the child is theirs.
Parents who are separated or divorced are advised to keep legal and other relevant documents available, in order to clarify custody rights. All children irrespective of nationality traveling alone or with adults that have no legal custody over them, are also strongly advised to hold a letter of travel consent signed by a legal guardian or parent with legal custody, containing:
- authorization to travel (with another person, when applicable) and to be outside the country;
- destination in Canada, also indicating length of stay;
- the signor's address and phone details.
Canada - Destination Visa
Visa required.
The following are exempt from holding a visa:
Passengers with a valid student or employment authorization are allowed to return to Canada from the USA or St. Pierre and Miquelon without obtaining a new visa, if they have not left the USA or St. Pierre and Miquelon to a third country and are returning within the period of entry authorized (expiry date of student or employment authorization) or within 6 months of original entry stamp.
Additional information:
Approved applicants for permanent residence are issued a Confirmation of Permanent Residence (COPR). Visa counterfoils continue to be issued to approved applicants for permanent residence from non-visa exempt countries.
Canada - Destination Health
This information is for guide purposes only. Other health organisations may recommend alternative precautions.
Vaccinations not required.
Important:
Any visitor irrespective of length of intended stay in Canada may be referred for medical examination if deemed necessary.
Conditional, The traveler will need to hold travel documents as detailed below.
Canada - Destination Passport
The following regulations apply to children/minors:
Parent(s) traveling with a child under 18 years are strongly advised to hold documentation containing evidence that the child is theirs.
Parents who are separated or divorced are advised to keep legal and other relevant documents available, in order to clarify custody rights. All children irrespective of nationality traveling alone or with adults that have no legal custody over them, are also strongly advised to hold a letter of travel consent signed by a legal guardian or parent with legal custody, containing:
- authorization to travel (with another person, when applicable) and to be outside the country;
- destination in Canada, also indicating length of stay;
- the signor's address and phone details.
Canada - Destination Visa
Visa required.
The following are exempt from holding a visa:
Passengers with a valid student or employment authorization are allowed to return to Canada from the USA or St. Pierre and Miquelon without obtaining a new visa, if they have not left the USA or St. Pierre and Miquelon to a third country and are returning within the period of entry authorized (expiry date of student or employment authorization) or within 6 months of original entry stamp.
Additional information:
Approved applicants for permanent residence are issued a Confirmation of Permanent Residence (COPR). Visa counterfoils continue to be issued to approved applicants for permanent residence from non-visa exempt countries.
Canada - Destination Health
This information is for guide purposes only. Other health organisations may recommend alternative precautions.
Vaccinations not required.
Important:
Any visitor irrespective of length of intended stay in Canada may be referred for medical examination if deemed necessary.
Nov 11, 2016, 7:50 pm
#7
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As far as I'm aware, there is no provision in the RES system of any airline to validate residency status. You are required to present your PR or PRTD to the airline in order to board a flight to Canada. You don't state this, but do you show your PR card to the UA reps? That should clear it up immediately.
Plus I would give the UA agents a little leeway here. There is no way they can know all the rules and regs for entry into every foreign country. Therefore they rely on the RES system to enforce the entry requirements. The agents and the airline can get into serious trouble by allowing a passenger to board without the proper documents in place. If all they know is you are a Turkish citizen traveling to Canada, you need a visa. Unless you show proof of residency, how are they supposed know?
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp
Plus I would give the UA agents a little leeway here. There is no way they can know all the rules and regs for entry into every foreign country. Therefore they rely on the RES system to enforce the entry requirements. The agents and the airline can get into serious trouble by allowing a passenger to board without the proper documents in place. If all they know is you are a Turkish citizen traveling to Canada, you need a visa. Unless you show proof of residency, how are they supposed know?
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...aspx?i=TIMATIC
That said and as noted above, it is extremely unclear on OP's point and thus he would be well-advised to have all documentation with him.
As a result, a complaint to DOT is a waste of time.
Nov 11, 2016, 8:36 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 7
Thanks for the help guys, of course I carry the PR card with me. They still wouldn't give me my ticket until they call like 10 different places. It is not rocket science.
Can I refer them to Timaticweb?
edit: and also this happened to me twice, happened to my wife once. Basically all the time I fly from Houston.
Can I refer them to Timaticweb?
edit: and also this happened to me twice, happened to my wife once. Basically all the time I fly from Houston.
Nov 11, 2016, 8:39 pm
#9
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Nov 11, 2016, 10:50 pm
#11
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I provide a correction to the above Timatic information:
When you input Residence: Canada (Permanent resident, Resident Alien card, Form I-551) the tool gives back the result "! documents required below" (as I quoted above)
However, when you input Residence: Canada (Residence Permit), the tool gives back the result "Yes, The travel documentations held by the traveler are sufficient!"
I am not familiar with the differences. But you may want to suggest to the agent that a permanent resident card means the 2nd thing, not the first. (if you run into this issue again -- if this is the correct way to interpret the categories shown).
When you input Residence: Canada (Permanent resident, Resident Alien card, Form I-551) the tool gives back the result "! documents required below" (as I quoted above)
However, when you input Residence: Canada (Residence Permit), the tool gives back the result "Yes, The travel documentations held by the traveler are sufficient!"
I am not familiar with the differences. But you may want to suggest to the agent that a permanent resident card means the 2nd thing, not the first. (if you run into this issue again -- if this is the correct way to interpret the categories shown).
Nov 11, 2016, 11:47 pm
#12
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I provide a correction to the above Timatic information:
When you input Residence: Canada (Permanent resident, Resident Alien card, Form I-551) the tool gives back the result "! documents required below" (as I quoted above)
However, when you input Residence: Canada (Residence Permit), the tool gives back the result "Yes, The travel documentations held by the traveler are sufficient!"
I am not familiar with the differences. But you may want to suggest to the agent that a permanent resident card means the 2nd thing, not the first. (if you run into this issue again -- if this is the correct way to interpret the categories shown).
When you input Residence: Canada (Permanent resident, Resident Alien card, Form I-551) the tool gives back the result "! documents required below" (as I quoted above)
However, when you input Residence: Canada (Residence Permit), the tool gives back the result "Yes, The travel documentations held by the traveler are sufficient!"
I am not familiar with the differences. But you may want to suggest to the agent that a permanent resident card means the 2nd thing, not the first. (if you run into this issue again -- if this is the correct way to interpret the categories shown).
Nov 12, 2016, 1:55 pm
#13
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The agent should not see anything different than you do. That was the whole point of making TIMATIC available to the public.
Looking at it, I agree that it is easy to read the TIMATIC entry as requiring a visa. If UA delivers a passenger who is denied entry for improper documents, it faces significant fines and the cost of returning the passenger to the point of origin. Agents can't go wrong by reading TIMATIC in a conservative manner. That may cost UA business, but the agent won't be blamed for some mess.
Looking at it, I agree that it is easy to read the TIMATIC entry as requiring a visa. If UA delivers a passenger who is denied entry for improper documents, it faces significant fines and the cost of returning the passenger to the point of origin. Agents can't go wrong by reading TIMATIC in a conservative manner. That may cost UA business, but the agent won't be blamed for some mess.