IAH-OIL-TRASH

This.

Although I'm losing RDMs under the new system, I understand why UA is doing it and I think it's fair. People who were getting gobs of miles under the old system on cheap, long distance fares are understandably annoyed at the new scheme, but they've been benefiting from a reward system that actually didn't make any sense relative to revenue a particular passenger generated. The new system rewards the price of the ticket (1:1) and loyalty (by multiplier). Sorry, but it is logical.

The old program is in the rear-view mirror. Keep your eyes on the road ahead - there's an intersection. Either go straight ahead or make a turn. Your decision...

Superguy

There are people who would benefit under the new system aren't happy with it either. You don't have to "lose" to think this change sucks. @:-)

IAH-OIL-TRASH

????

There are people who are getting more RDMs and don't want them?????

AppleApe

it's the same with people who have more money than they know what to do with... do you think they're happy? No. All the excess money become a burden. (too bad I don't have that problem)

NiceLanding

While we can debate the pros and cons of the new and old systems with regard to airline profitability and customer satisfaction, I think it would have softened the blow quite a bit had they gone to a hybrid system with elements of both. For example, switch to $-based for the core mileage earnings, but keep the mileage-based system in place for elite bonuses. Everyone would get the same 5x points on spend, plus elites would get 25% to 100% of actual mileage.

That way you'd be compensating for both money spent as well as the proportionally greater pain of sitting on longer flights (and more so for those most loyal to the airline). It would also be more consistent with premier qualification, which is now based on both spend and mileage. Instead of such a "something for everyone" approach, they've now polarized their (knowledgeable) customer base and, in my opinion, driven away a sizable population of incrementally-profitable loyalists.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

The new system is already a hybrid (taking out the inaneness of miles) - 1 dollar = 1 RDM plus a multiplier for Premiers. If you are a Premier "sitting on longer flights" and paying more money, you get more RDMs than another same-level Premier on the exact same flight paying less money. You are both getting the same multipliers. This is brain-dead simple and equitable. A 1K paying a P fare should get less RDMs than a 1k paying a F fare on the same TPAC flight.

Superguy

It's not just about RDMs. That's what you guys don't seem to get.

I'm a mixed sort of traveler. I do a lot of travel on OPM. I also do a fair amount of travel on my own dime.

I'd much rather have consistent rewards I can count on, with bonuses added for status and CoS. I don't like being rewarded sometimes and screwed other times when my business is pretty consistent. I prefer AA's way of rewarding me when I spend more.

Looking at how UA's doing it, and with all the glitches, it's too much hassle for too little reward. And even if you throw more money at them in add-ons, only certain money counts for reward. It's not like the value of the RDMs remained static. They were devalued severely last year. So if it's harder to get miles, and takes more of them to get an award, what's the point?

That doesn't even address the declining quality of service UA has provided since the merger, which is a big deal too.

Then add them virtually killing the concept of an alliance by penalizing you for flying a *A carrier - even if UA can't take you there themselves.

Put them together, and there's little reason to fly UA. There's not enough upside to justify it anymore. I look at the whole value proposition, and UA just sucks for that these days.

If they want my $4k-7k Y/C fares, they need to treat me well consistently. UA doesn't do that anymore. If they want to follow a transactional model, that's fine. They just can't demand loyalty for it - especially when their demands do not meet the rewards for doing so.

So AA/BA is getting my $4500 Y/B next month. AA still values ALL of my business, and rewards accordingly. If that changes in the future, I'll re-evaluate then. Until then ...

AppleApe

AA/US is still busy with the merger. I'm willing to bet that the new AA
will definitely follow DL and UA.

Bonehead

[Bolding mine]



I think that's what UA is doing.

ExtonUS

February 20th Luftnhansa P class FRA-IAH 3870 premier miles, 7740 reward miles 0 pqd

March 16th United ZM class PIT-IAH 1117 premier miles, 7,139 reward miles, $649 pqd

Just kind of struck me looking at the earnings of a previous partner transatlantic business class versus a current domestic hop on an exensive fare.

Wasn't really considering domestic earnings since under the old system they never accounted for a significant portion of my mileage earnings but I guess they could still be relevant. Maybe not in the grand scheme of things with 20-30k one way on international business class from now on though.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

A higher CoS costs more, so you'll get more miles. The multiplier is recognition of status. Rewards based on dollars and status is about as simple as it gets (vs old program of miles flown, CoS, and status). It is simpler and just as consistent. Not only that, but there is a direct calculation between RDM awards and the value you bring to the airline vs miles. Tell us how miles equates to customer value...Someone who flies 100,000 miles for $6k is clearly far less valuable than someone who flies 100,000 miles for $60,000. 10x less. There is no argument you can put forth that disputes that.

olouie

Brain dead simple system that UA can't make work right. They shortchanged me 2000 miles on a $781 PQD. Said it could take them few weeks to months to fix since their systems are not setup to fix incorrect earnings when issued.

Kmxu

First grader problem!!! UA has one year to get PQD right. The multipliers got them in troubles. Haha..

Superguy

But once again, that's only one facet of the argument. You're looking at it very linearly rather than stepping back and looking at the big picture.

Someone who spends 60k flying 100k miles is already rewarded at a higher level. That person would be a GS. @:-) And those people are probably the least likely to care about RDMs.

The other thing is the $60k 100k flyers are much fewer and farther between. I'm sure UA would love to have an airline that just had those. Problem is they'd be a very small airline. So you need to keep the other frequent yet less costly people happy.

The 1K lite that we threw around FTs are very likely few and far between. Most 1Ks probably spend around the $10k threshold at the very least to get the status. Some more, some maybe a bit less. Even if they are less profitable than that $60k flyer, their business is still very much needed. It's much easier to keep someone who flies consistently than to try to constantly recruit Kettles to fill those seats. And there's also a lot more of them than the handful of $60k flyers.

So you have to offer them something that makes it worthwhile to remain a loyal customer. Otherwise you have to keep offering rock bottom fares to the Kettles and rely on upsells to squeeze them for more money. At least to me, I'd think a moderately profitable yet consistent customer would be better than trying to snag a new Kettle every time, but what do I know.

UA tried to adjust the threshold with PQDs. I don't have a problem with PQDs as long as the rewards match what is being demanded. Problem with UA is that they kept gutting the program and services and offering less and less while demanding more and more. While I expect the equation to favor UA somewhat, the equation's unbalanced to the point where it's not really worth it.

Bottom line is this really throws loyalty out the window. This goes for DL too, and will for AA if it follows. If loyalty is just a multiplier of a dollar figure. I'll pass. I'll just go with what works best for me, factoring in schedule, quality of service, schedule and cost. If I end up getting status on an airline then, great. If I get enough miles for a decent award, great. If not, I'm just not going to worry about it anymore.

The FFP, especially in UA's case, was an incentive to put up with UA's mediocrity because they made it worth it to do so. Now they're a worse airline with a worse FFP. No longer worth it.

svancleavemd

This week flew DCA to SAT in F, on a full fare ticket. I received 1.5 times actual miles for PQM. UA said that as a 1K, I would get 11 times dollars spent on airfare for miles. Is that only for award miles? If so, then why spend a lot of money on a domestic ticket, if you are not getting any more PQM than last year? This may well have been answered, but I have not been on the forum for a year.

Thanks