Jan 19, 2015, 1:50 am
Last edit by: Kacee
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw (OJ)?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted.
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: It has become extremely difficult to book an open-jaw at the stopover. Best not to count on getting one.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: No.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a "free one-way" I can get on a UA award?
A: The term "free one-way" is a misnomer and often confuses people (and may annoy the regulars here!). The technical definition of this concept is "stopover at origin." There have been mixed reports recently about UA's willingness to ticket a stopover at origin.
Important Notes - PLEASE READ:
1. Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it. This is probably the number one error made in attempting to construct a complex itinerary. If you have more than two stops >24 hours on a roundtrip award, it is not legal and will not ticket.
2. An open jaw always creates a stopover, even if you're stopping for less than 24 hours.
3. Many awards are subject to segment or "transfer" limitations. For example, the North America to South Asia award is currently restricted to four transfers in each direction.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw (OJ)?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted.
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: It has become extremely difficult to book an open-jaw at the stopover. Best not to count on getting one.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: No.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a "free one-way" I can get on a UA award?
A: The term "free one-way" is a misnomer and often confuses people (and may annoy the regulars here!). The technical definition of this concept is "stopover at origin." There have been mixed reports recently about UA's willingness to ticket a stopover at origin.
Important Notes - PLEASE READ:
1. Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it. This is probably the number one error made in attempting to construct a complex itinerary. If you have more than two stops >24 hours on a roundtrip award, it is not legal and will not ticket.
2. An open jaw always creates a stopover, even if you're stopping for less than 24 hours.
3. Many awards are subject to segment or "transfer" limitations. For example, the North America to South Asia award is currently restricted to four transfers in each direction.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Questions on Open Jaw/Stopover and Award Routings for United UA/*A Partners [2015]
Jul 30, 2015, 10:32 pm
#421
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: Hyatt, United, Marriott
Posts: 128
Given the routing issues, maybe I should look into other destinations.
Jul 30, 2015, 11:24 pm
#422
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,853
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ip-ticket.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...rd-travel.html
Jul 31, 2015, 1:05 am
#423
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,455
Two oceans bookings are not expressly forbidden but some agents will claim they are. The bigger issue with be finding valid routings with not too many segments.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ip-ticket.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...rd-travel.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ip-ticket.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...rd-travel.html
The two oceans restriction is apparently programed into the computer. You cannot get .com to return that itinerary and agents will balk because it doesn't price.
Aug 1, 2015, 2:03 am
#424
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
First time really trying to put something together on United and I think I got success.
CLT>YYZ>NRT stopover 4days
NRT>SDJ>ICN>SYD destination
SYD>ICN(16HRS)>ORD>CLT
I was able to get to the price out page but did not complete booking(this was practice). I initially had trouble with .com completing the NRT>SYD but with multiple tries got it to stick. Based on what I have read I think this is legal and should be fully bookable. It was biz class with a couple of Econ seats for the under 2 hour segments. 160k miles per ticket. Not the lowest price but this was more an exercise in searching.
Anyone care to weigh in?
CLT>YYZ>NRT stopover 4days
NRT>SDJ>ICN>SYD destination
SYD>ICN(16HRS)>ORD>CLT
I was able to get to the price out page but did not complete booking(this was practice). I initially had trouble with .com completing the NRT>SYD but with multiple tries got it to stick. Based on what I have read I think this is legal and should be fully bookable. It was biz class with a couple of Econ seats for the under 2 hour segments. 160k miles per ticket. Not the lowest price but this was more an exercise in searching.
Anyone care to weigh in?
Aug 2, 2015, 12:24 am
#425
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11
HELP! Agent denied Two Open Jaws and Stopover
Hi everyone!
A good friend of mine is getting married in India in November, and my wife and I are able to use United miles to get there. And further, I was trying to use the "free one-way ticket" strategy as seen here: http://www.extrapackofpeanuts.com/ma...aws-on-united/.
But when I tried to book the entire flight online, the search engine wasn't working, despite being able to get each segment to work. So, I called United to have them book it (and eat the $25 booking fee): After 45 minutes on the phone with the agent, she kept telling me that I could not have two open jaws and a stopover, although everything I've ever read has said that I can. I finally relented on the "free one-way" and just booked the India portion of the flight, which is what I really cared most about. What am I missing?
Here's the itinerary I was trying to do (all Economy Saver awards):
-SFO --> Delhi, India (with a 12-hr layover in Paris) on November 21st 2015
-Chandigarh, India --> SFO (by way of Delhi, Hong Kong, and Beijing) on November 30th 2015 (9-day Indian wedding vacation complete)
-SFO --> Anchorage ("free one-way") on May 7th 2016
I understood my flight to be the following:
-SFO --> Delhi
-Chandigarh (OPEN JAW) --> SFO (STOPOVER)
-SFO --> Anchorage (OPEN JAW)
Of course, she said I could book whatever I wanted, but that it would cost me more money/miles.
After just booking, a friend mentioned I might be breaking a 4-flight in one direction limitation. Not being familiar with that rule, I'm not sure if the 4 flights limit is to the stopover or to the destination. If the latter, then I might be able to find another route with one less flight to make it all work. I still have 23 hours to cancel my flight and book another one without consequence. But to be clear, that's not why the United agent told me I couldn't book the route I originally wanted.
Anyway, thanks in advance if anyone can shed some light on this!
A good friend of mine is getting married in India in November, and my wife and I are able to use United miles to get there. And further, I was trying to use the "free one-way ticket" strategy as seen here: http://www.extrapackofpeanuts.com/ma...aws-on-united/.
But when I tried to book the entire flight online, the search engine wasn't working, despite being able to get each segment to work. So, I called United to have them book it (and eat the $25 booking fee): After 45 minutes on the phone with the agent, she kept telling me that I could not have two open jaws and a stopover, although everything I've ever read has said that I can. I finally relented on the "free one-way" and just booked the India portion of the flight, which is what I really cared most about. What am I missing?
Here's the itinerary I was trying to do (all Economy Saver awards):
-SFO --> Delhi, India (with a 12-hr layover in Paris) on November 21st 2015
-Chandigarh, India --> SFO (by way of Delhi, Hong Kong, and Beijing) on November 30th 2015 (9-day Indian wedding vacation complete)
-SFO --> Anchorage ("free one-way") on May 7th 2016
I understood my flight to be the following:
-SFO --> Delhi
-Chandigarh (OPEN JAW) --> SFO (STOPOVER)
-SFO --> Anchorage (OPEN JAW)
Of course, she said I could book whatever I wanted, but that it would cost me more money/miles.
After just booking, a friend mentioned I might be breaking a 4-flight in one direction limitation. Not being familiar with that rule, I'm not sure if the 4 flights limit is to the stopover or to the destination. If the latter, then I might be able to find another route with one less flight to make it all work. I still have 23 hours to cancel my flight and book another one without consequence. But to be clear, that's not why the United agent told me I couldn't book the route I originally wanted.
Anyway, thanks in advance if anyone can shed some light on this!
Aug 2, 2015, 12:36 am
#426
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,853
Welcome to FT!, jwithers619
The online system does often fail on complex itins -- the only option is to call.
The word is UA is cracking down on the so-called "free one-ways." Stopovers at the original origin (as you are trying) seem to be out.
There are some routes that do have a four segment maximum. Some don't.
In this thread and the earlier versions you can read some real examples of the use of OJs/SOs.
....
But when I tried to book the entire flight online, the search engine wasn't working, despite being able to get each segment to work. So, I called United to have them book it (and eat the $25 booking fee): After 45 minutes on the phone with the agent, she kept telling me that I could not have two open jaws and a stopover, although everything I've ever read has said that I can. I finally relented on the "free one-way" and just booked the India portion of the flight, which is what I really cared most about. What am I missing?
....
But when I tried to book the entire flight online, the search engine wasn't working, despite being able to get each segment to work. So, I called United to have them book it (and eat the $25 booking fee): After 45 minutes on the phone with the agent, she kept telling me that I could not have two open jaws and a stopover, although everything I've ever read has said that I can. I finally relented on the "free one-way" and just booked the India portion of the flight, which is what I really cared most about. What am I missing?
....
The word is UA is cracking down on the so-called "free one-ways." Stopovers at the original origin (as you are trying) seem to be out.
There are some routes that do have a four segment maximum. Some don't.
In this thread and the earlier versions you can read some real examples of the use of OJs/SOs.
Aug 2, 2015, 6:57 am
#427
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: san antonio, texas
Programs: 3.2MM AA, 1.4MM UA,StwdLftPlt
Posts: 1,586
Looks as though he squeezed a two oceans itinerary out of UA.
That is good news.
I wonder if the "F$%# 1 W#@" exploit, trumpeted in countless travel blogs, has been closed.
In a period where the CEO emphasizes in public speeches that "UA is now a business," and fees are here to stay, it wouldn't surprise me if a department existed in Willis Tower to scrub the word "free" from any passenger transaction.
That is good news.
I wonder if the "F$%# 1 W#@" exploit, trumpeted in countless travel blogs, has been closed.
In a period where the CEO emphasizes in public speeches that "UA is now a business," and fees are here to stay, it wouldn't surprise me if a department existed in Willis Tower to scrub the word "free" from any passenger transaction.
Aug 2, 2015, 11:33 am
#428
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,455
OP's itinerary can be booked as two separate one-ways because there's no stopover. It's the stopover in Europe on a RT that's essentially been eliminated (although there will always be exceptions reported - UA will ticket virtually anything if you can get the right exception approved).
Aug 2, 2015, 8:34 pm
#429
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11
UPDATE: I called United back today, hoping another agent might see things differently. She immediately told me that United DOES NOT ("and has never") allowed two open jaws and a stopover. In fact, she said United does not allow two open jaws at all; they only allow ONE open jaw and one stopover. After I continued challenging her, saying I know people who have done it, she put me on the line with the United division that handles policy (with whom she had already spoken on my call), and the "policy expert" echoed the same thing. She essentially said that if agents have made mistakes in the past (allowing two open jaws and a stopover), that doesn't mean they will continue to do so.
Aug 2, 2015, 9:22 pm
#430
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,455
UPDATE: I called United back today, hoping another agent might see things differently. She immediately told me that United DOES NOT ("and has never") allowed two open jaws and a stopover. In fact, she said United does not allow two open jaws at all; they only allow ONE open jaw and one stopover. After I continued challenging her, saying I know people who have done it, she put me on the line with the United division that handles policy (with whom she had already spoken on my call), and the "policy expert" echoed the same thing. She essentially said that if agents have made mistakes in the past (allowing two open jaws and a stopover), that doesn't mean they will continue to do so.
- Two open jaws are permitted per roundtrip award. For example, you can fly from Newark to London and return from Paris to Washington Dulles.
- A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted.
United Air Travel Award Rules
It's really not worth arguing with an agent. If you get one who is clueless and argumentative, HUACA.
Aug 2, 2015, 10:20 pm
#431
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11
Did you read this to them?
United Air Travel Award Rules
It's really not worth arguing with an agent. If you get one who is clueless and argumentative, HUACA.
- Two open jaws are permitted per roundtrip award. For example, you can fly from Newark to London and return from Paris to Washington Dulles.
- A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted.
United Air Travel Award Rules
It's really not worth arguing with an agent. If you get one who is clueless and argumentative, HUACA.
Thanks again for your advice!
Aug 2, 2015, 11:35 pm
#432
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,455
Thanks so much! I read it to the 3rd agent (haha), and he was open to try it. However, it turns out that all my flights so far are X-class, and the flight to Anchorage is XN. Because I'm a MileagePlus credit card holder, he would allow me to add the flight, but the system won't allow him to combine X with XN. However, he said to keep checking for X flights, and that he put a note on my account that will allow me to add the flight, should X tickets become available, free of charge. Small victories!
All *A partner awards book into X. There is no partner availability in XN.
But as already mentioned, UA is eliminating the stopover at origin.
People who keep trying to score a FREE ONE-WAY (
) are going to cause yet another tightening of the routing rules. From which we all suffer.
Aug 4, 2015, 2:10 pm
#433
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fort Lee, NJ
Programs: continental one pass, delta skymiles, platinum american express
Posts: 171
Planning Mediterranean /Middle East grand award tour
Good afternoon,
I have about 500k United miles. I want to plan an award trip next April with my wife and daughter. I want to go from NYC and visit Dubai, Turkey, a Greek island, Sicliy, Barcelona and Morocco. I think that I am allowed one stopover and two open jaws. Is it possible to get 3 first or business ward tickets on the same flights? What is the best way to plan something like this? Thanks.
rtlaw
I have about 500k United miles. I want to plan an award trip next April with my wife and daughter. I want to go from NYC and visit Dubai, Turkey, a Greek island, Sicliy, Barcelona and Morocco. I think that I am allowed one stopover and two open jaws. Is it possible to get 3 first or business ward tickets on the same flights? What is the best way to plan something like this? Thanks.
rtlaw
Aug 4, 2015, 3:51 pm
#434
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,864
Aug 4, 2015, 4:02 pm
#435
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,693
Start looking for availability for 3 seats and write down where you find it. If you find enough to make a trip, book it. If not, look another time.