Jan 23, 2015, 7:28 am
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Upgrading Flights Operated by ANA , Lufthansa or COPA
Partner PlusPoints Upgrade Awards
For general information on upgrading ANA or Lufthansa flights with PlusPoints (note to use miles is a separate process) see Upgrading Flights Operated by ANA , Lufthansa or COPA You actually request the upgrade through the online form, here: Partner PlusPoints Upgrade Awards
Per United web support, you only need to fill in the required* info.
**The LH flight you are upgrading must be an LH flight, not a UA codeshare flight. If you have a UA codeshare flight, you can call websupport and they will (put you on hold and] change your itinerary to one with an LH flight#.
Note that UA websupport might give you a new ticket # when you do the above, but if the original ticket # was 016 UA stock, it will remain so, and thus you will still be earning RDMs at the UA rate (11x for a 1K), not the *A rate. In case of a $6000 biz fare for LAX-FRA that you are trying to upgrade to F for example, as a 1K you would earn 66,000 UA RDM if booked as a UA flight. And even though after booking you get them to change the UA flight # from a UA codeshare flight to an LH flight, the 016 ticket stock sticks, and you earn 66,000 RDMs.
(FYI, had the ticket stock been an LH stock, the RDM's earned would be 5790 miles x 150% = 8685 RDMs. Big difference)
Note that sometimes the online upgrading does not work, and you may get an error message to call an 877 number, which is now defunct but still resides on .bomb...Ignore it and just call web support. They might put you on hold while they call LH but they will get the job done.
Eligible Economy Fares to Apply PlusPounts
Upgradeable to business fares include U/H/Q the lowest eligible economy fares. G&E the two top premium economy fares and Y/B/M the most expensive economy fares. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24219165-post205.html)While UA has not changed their T&Cs, LH appears to have expanded the potential fare classes
For C->F upgrade, J, D, C fares are eligible, Z and P fares are not
.
LH booking class P, Z upgreadable for miles and eVouchers
From April to September 2018 it was possible to confirm and waitlist P,Z-class LH flights with a PlusPoints. Confirming and waitlisting is no now longer possible, but previously waitlisted segments will continue to clear as/if available.
Checking for Upgrade Availability
Upgrades to E, C and F come from the R, I and O fare bucket, but its a subset, which theoretically is not the same as the award subset. If awards are available it is a strong indication the upgrade is available too. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24861289-post342.html)
In case of upgrade clearing but eticket refresh problems:
Checking for availability prior to calling
Use ANA or even united.com to see availability.
To check if C/F upgrades may open up, ask in this thread: Determining LH Y/C/F loads? [the help me guesstimate loads thread]
Regarding ticket stock, Oliver reports:
Each LH flight segment requires a separate set of PlusPoints
A single set of PlusPoints can be used to only upgrade a single LH flight segment, And that PlusPoints cannot be extended to include another LH flight segment or another UA flight segment.
Problems getting mileage credit for upgraded LH segments
Numerous reports of denial of mileage credits (RDMs, PQMs, PQSs, PQDs) for upgraded tickets. This issue is probably due to LH uses the same fare bucket for mileage awards and upgrades. It seems patience, persistence, and documentation of the originally paid fare are needed to get credit.
You probably won't get credit by simply submitting the online form or asking a CSR to do so for you. A CSR needs to submit a System Issue Form, together with the mileage request, explaining that you flew in I class, but you paid for a mileage-earning booking class.
T-10
While the original system did not allow the upgrade waitlist to carry on past t-10 hours, the have been multiple reports that this is no longer the case. If not cleared in advance - the upgrade wait-list will last all the way until the door closing. UA has not updated the text on the LH upgrades to reflect this change.
Premium Eco To Biz Upgrade
Archive Thread: Lufthansa GPUs Go Electronic {Archive}
Related Thread
How to upgrade with UA miles on Star Alliance carriers
Partner PlusPoints Upgrade Awards
For general information on upgrading ANA or Lufthansa flights with PlusPoints (note to use miles is a separate process) see Upgrading Flights Operated by ANA , Lufthansa or COPA You actually request the upgrade through the online form, here: Partner PlusPoints Upgrade Awards
Per United web support, you only need to fill in the required* info.
**The LH flight you are upgrading must be an LH flight, not a UA codeshare flight. If you have a UA codeshare flight, you can call websupport and they will (put you on hold and] change your itinerary to one with an LH flight#.
Note that UA websupport might give you a new ticket # when you do the above, but if the original ticket # was 016 UA stock, it will remain so, and thus you will still be earning RDMs at the UA rate (11x for a 1K), not the *A rate. In case of a $6000 biz fare for LAX-FRA that you are trying to upgrade to F for example, as a 1K you would earn 66,000 UA RDM if booked as a UA flight. And even though after booking you get them to change the UA flight # from a UA codeshare flight to an LH flight, the 016 ticket stock sticks, and you earn 66,000 RDMs.
(FYI, had the ticket stock been an LH stock, the RDM's earned would be 5790 miles x 150% = 8685 RDMs. Big difference)
Note that sometimes the online upgrading does not work, and you may get an error message to call an 877 number, which is now defunct but still resides on .bomb...Ignore it and just call web support. They might put you on hold while they call LH but they will get the job done.
Eligible Economy Fares to Apply PlusPounts
Upgradeable to business fares include U/H/Q the lowest eligible economy fares. G&E the two top premium economy fares and Y/B/M the most expensive economy fares. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24219165-post205.html)While UA has not changed their T&Cs, LH appears to have expanded the potential fare classes
... Just check the tables here: https://www.miles-and-more.com/onlin...l=en&cid=18002
.
From April to September 2018 it was possible to confirm and waitlist P,Z-class LH flights with a PlusPoints. Confirming and waitlisting is no now longer possible, but previously waitlisted segments will continue to clear as/if available.
Checking for Upgrade Availability
Upgrades to E, C and F come from the R, I and O fare bucket, but its a subset, which theoretically is not the same as the award subset. If awards are available it is a strong indication the upgrade is available too. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24861289-post342.html)
In case of upgrade clearing but eticket refresh problems:
Originally Posted by oliver2002
Both longhaul LH segments cleared into I after being on waitlist. The first didnt get stickered, so the DCS (amadeus altea) rejected online and agent checkin. The eticket helpdesk had to manually update the first coupon for the DCS to accept the coupon. My seat in C was safe, since the PNR was updated correctly, just the ticket was not updated completely to the satisfaction of the DCS. Everyone looking at the booking agreed the upgrade was legit, so you will not be denied boarding or downgraded, just budget enough time
Originally Posted by oliver2002
The LH GA must have called the eticket helpdesk and pointed out the * SSR remark in your reservation that shows an upgrade was applied and the e-ticket just needed a fix/sticker. See my experience above.
To check if C/F upgrades may open up, ask in this thread: Determining LH Y/C/F loads? [the help me guesstimate loads thread]
Regarding ticket stock, Oliver reports:
Each LH flight segment requires a separate set of PlusPoints
A single set of PlusPoints can be used to only upgrade a single LH flight segment, And that PlusPoints cannot be extended to include another LH flight segment or another UA flight segment.
Problems getting mileage credit for upgraded LH segments
Numerous reports of denial of mileage credits (RDMs, PQMs, PQSs, PQDs) for upgraded tickets. This issue is probably due to LH uses the same fare bucket for mileage awards and upgrades. It seems patience, persistence, and documentation of the originally paid fare are needed to get credit.
You probably won't get credit by simply submitting the online form or asking a CSR to do so for you. A CSR needs to submit a System Issue Form, together with the mileage request, explaining that you flew in I class, but you paid for a mileage-earning booking class.
T-10
While the original system did not allow the upgrade waitlist to carry on past t-10 hours, the have been multiple reports that this is no longer the case. If not cleared in advance - the upgrade wait-list will last all the way until the door closing. UA has not updated the text on the LH upgrades to reflect this change.
Premium Eco To Biz Upgrade
Related Thread
How to upgrade with UA miles on Star Alliance carriers
LH Electronic PlusPts Upgrades -How to use, will it clear?, issues w/flight credit,..
Aug 27, 2023, 12:43 am
#241
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For LH-operated flights, each leg requires a separate PlusPoints request. They will clear individually, but assuming that LH operates an F cabin on FRA-DXB and vv., you’d need 80 points per passenger in each direction to upgrade both. (On the day I happened to search, they were using an A330 from FRA-DXB, which, AFAIK, does not have an F cabin).
Aug 30, 2023, 7:15 pm
#242
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I haven't booked yet, but I'm eyeing a flight that would book on 016, with the return operated by LH. That return flight is listed as booking on the native LH flight numbers. (The outbound, which I would not upgrade, is on UA codeshare number). No issue here, right?
Aug 31, 2023, 9:27 am
#243
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-RM
Aug 31, 2023, 1:17 pm
#244
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it is actually the perfect scenario to book this outright and not having to deal w/ flight number conversions.
Sep 1, 2023, 12:07 am
#245
Join Date: Nov 2019
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How do you recommend I follow up with UA and/or LH to rectify this mess?
Sep 1, 2023, 12:31 am
#246
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Also - the upgrade is per segment, so apply PP's to each one and it will clear separately.
Sep 1, 2023, 6:06 am
#247
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Turns out it was not absolutely normal. I went to check in for my flight at the airport and Lufthansa said my ticket needed to be "re-validated." This resulted in 60+ minutes on a conference call with UA GS and Lufthansa. No resolution at all--Lufthansa insisted it was "impossible" to check me in--and I ended up switching to a UA flight and losing my upgrade.
How do you recommend I follow up with UA and/or LH to rectify this mess?
How do you recommend I follow up with UA and/or LH to rectify this mess?
You wrote you contacted GS ... I wonder what they might have done to mess this up. Did you check that LH had the correct ticket numbers from UA? Why did you contact GS in the first place?
Hard to tell whether there was really a problem and who caused it. I would start with United on that one.
Sep 1, 2023, 6:20 am
#248
Join Date: Nov 2019
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It'll depend what UA did wrong here. The fact alone that UA shows 'D' and LH shows 'O' is no concern whatsoever. 90% of my LH upgraded UA tickets look that way including the one I have in a few weeks ... and I am not concerned.
You wrote you contacted GS ... I wonder what they might have done to mess this up. Did you check that LH had the correct ticket numbers from UA? Why did you contact GS in the first place?
Hard to tell whether there was really a problem and who caused it. I would start with United on that one.
You wrote you contacted GS ... I wonder what they might have done to mess this up. Did you check that LH had the correct ticket numbers from UA? Why did you contact GS in the first place?
Hard to tell whether there was really a problem and who caused it. I would start with United on that one.
Am I supposed to have an intricate knowledge of airline industry ticketing processes in order to use PP on LH? I followed the published, customer-facing instructions exactly and this is what happened. The fact that multiple agents at UA and LH couldn’t figure out any form of resolution points to what a truly horrible customer experience the current system is.
I don’t know and don’t care whose fault it is. There needs to be a better way.
Sep 1, 2023, 6:32 am
#249
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Thank you. I called UA GS when the LH airport agent insisted there was nothing I could do and this was UA’s problem to solve. First GS agent told me the exact opposite (i.e., she couldn’t do anything and it was LH’s problem). I HUCA and the second GS agent called LH on my behalf…turned into a 60 minute conference call with GS, LH, and me that ended in a total impasse (LH saying they couldn’t check me in, UA saying they couldn’t do anything…) and me having to change my flight to a UA-operated one in my original booking class.
Am I supposed to have an intricate knowledge of airline industry ticketing processes in order to use PP on LH? I followed the published, customer-facing instructions exactly and this is what happened. The fact that multiple agents at UA and LH couldn’t figure out any form of resolution points to what a truly horrible customer experience the current system is.
I don’t know and don’t care whose fault it is. There needs to be a better way.
Am I supposed to have an intricate knowledge of airline industry ticketing processes in order to use PP on LH? I followed the published, customer-facing instructions exactly and this is what happened. The fact that multiple agents at UA and LH couldn’t figure out any form of resolution points to what a truly horrible customer experience the current system is.
I don’t know and don’t care whose fault it is. There needs to be a better way.
I have ~ 10 LH upgrades a year and they are all going smoothly, all of them on 016 tickets.
You are right, this is not an easy process (on a UA ticket where flight # conversions are needed). It is of course much simpler on a 220 LH ticket.
And I assume you never got an upgrade cancelled notice or +Ps back for this either ... that would be a read flag.
Sep 1, 2023, 7:04 am
#250
Join Date: Nov 2019
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My best guess is that UA messed something up in the first place. You said you called GS way before the flight and they said there was an issue that needed fixing - did they try and 'fix' anything? IME experience, as long as UA has the segment on the ticket as an LH flight number in D, C, J and Lufthansa shows that same ticket number with only one segment for that flight and First (O) as confirmed and listing 'mileage upgrade' below ... everything is good. It gets problematic if UA is trying to mess with it, re-validating and things like it.
I have ~ 10 LH upgrades a year and they are all going smoothly, all of them on 016 tickets.
You are right, this is not an easy process (on a UA ticket where flight # conversions are needed). It is of course much simpler on a 220 LH ticket.
And I assume you never got an upgrade cancelled notice or +Ps back for this either ... that would be a read flag.
I have ~ 10 LH upgrades a year and they are all going smoothly, all of them on 016 tickets.
You are right, this is not an easy process (on a UA ticket where flight # conversions are needed). It is of course much simpler on a 220 LH ticket.
And I assume you never got an upgrade cancelled notice or +Ps back for this either ... that would be a read flag.
FWIW, I was originally booked on a different LH flight and confirmed an upgrade to O using PP (that time, the upgrade cleared and UA.com showed my booking in O). I then switched to a UA flight--of course, there's no F cabin so no need for an upgrade, so I wrote into UA and successfully refunded the PP. My plans changed once more, so I eventually switched to a new LH flight and re-applied PP. The online tool showed that my upgrade was "confirmed" immediately and I was able to select a seat in F. The UA website still showed me in D (with my F seat assignment), whereas the LH website showed me in "First Class." Fast forward to me getting to the airport and LH and UA both saying there was nothing they could do to check me into the LH flight.
I agree this is a complex situation--UA ticket number, multiple itinerary changes, canceling and re-adding PP, etc. That said, I never once deviated from the published process for doing any of this. It's not like I was trying to exploit some fringe ticketing loophole. Ostensibly some of UA's most valuable customers are the ones using PP on LH. I'm shocked that the (many) agents I spoke with from both UA and LH acted like their hands were completely tied and there was nothing they could do to fix this situation.
Sep 1, 2023, 7:18 am
#251
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Very interesting. When I called UA a few weeks ago (after the upgrade confirmed and UA.com showed my original D booking class but a seat assignment in First) they said there was nothing they could do.
FWIW, I was originally booked on a different LH flight and confirmed an upgrade to O using PP (that time, the upgrade cleared and UA.com showed my booking in O). I then switched to a UA flight--of course, there's no F cabin so no need for an upgrade, so I wrote into UA and successfully refunded the PP. My plans changed once more, so I eventually switched to a new LH flight and re-applied PP. The online tool showed that my upgrade was "confirmed" immediately and I was able to select a seat in F. The UA website still showed me in D (with my F seat assignment), whereas the LH website showed me in "First Class." Fast forward to me getting to the airport and LH and UA both saying there was nothing they could do to check me into the LH flight.
FWIW, I was originally booked on a different LH flight and confirmed an upgrade to O using PP (that time, the upgrade cleared and UA.com showed my booking in O). I then switched to a UA flight--of course, there's no F cabin so no need for an upgrade, so I wrote into UA and successfully refunded the PP. My plans changed once more, so I eventually switched to a new LH flight and re-applied PP. The online tool showed that my upgrade was "confirmed" immediately and I was able to select a seat in F. The UA website still showed me in D (with my F seat assignment), whereas the LH website showed me in "First Class." Fast forward to me getting to the airport and LH and UA both saying there was nothing they could do to check me into the LH flight.
I am just going back to you original post where you mention a GS interaction post upgrade clearing ... my best guess is that they did something to the reservation during/after that call that messed things up.
Sep 1, 2023, 12:15 pm
#252
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....
Am I supposed to have an intricate knowledge of airline industry ticketing processes in order to use PP on LH? I followed the published, customer-facing instructions exactly and this is what happened. The fact that multiple agents at UA and LH couldn’t figure out any form of resolution points to what a truly horrible customer experience the current system is.
I don’t know and don’t care whose fault it is. There needs to be a better way.
Am I supposed to have an intricate knowledge of airline industry ticketing processes in order to use PP on LH? I followed the published, customer-facing instructions exactly and this is what happened. The fact that multiple agents at UA and LH couldn’t figure out any form of resolution points to what a truly horrible customer experience the current system is.
I don’t know and don’t care whose fault it is. There needs to be a better way.
So yes, this is complicated and the best solution is for the non-operating carrier staff not to touch the ticket no matter the concerns of the customer. The issue is there are some cases of different issues that look the same that do require investigation. Given the use of PlusPoints on another carrier is a rare occurrence for most agents (and therefore unaware of situation), the process is never directly handled by agents (only by the special online tool), the use of different reservation systems and upgrade methods, ....
This a very unusual process, which given the airline differences will never be fool proof (not worth the investment for relatively number of uses). Over the years it has had various issues, but those that use it probably prefer a slightly flawed process over no process which probably is the only other choice. If uncomfortable with these realities, best not to use.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Sep 1, 2023 at 1:53 pm
Sep 1, 2023, 12:52 pm
#253
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Sep 1, 2023, 1:25 pm
#254
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I am corrected, it is interesting these are USA carriers. I had forgotten about AA and was not aware of DL (have never used DL or investigated their programs. I was really thinking of lack of reciprocity by non-USA carriers (eg LH). Guess I need to be more cautious with limited familiarity.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Sep 1, 2023 at 1:30 pm
Sep 1, 2023, 1:46 pm
#255
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I am corrected, it is interesting these are USA carriers. I had forgotten about AA and was not aware of DL (have never used DL or investigated their programs. I was really thinking of lack of reciprocity by non-USA carriers (eg LH). Guess I need to be more cautious with limited familiarity.
Now, if UA would just allow a few more (like LX) ... that would be heavenly