Jun 18, 2013, 7:18 am
Last edit by: iluv2fly
Please read these sources before posting in this thread:If you have calculated the PQDs for a trip at less than 80% of the total cost, you are very likely doing something wrong. Have you made sure to include the International Surcharge (YQ)? Have you read all of the materials linked above, and the frequently made points listed below?
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.FMP (Frequently Made Points)
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):Related Threads
Moderator's Note:- First post from UA Insider (post 1)
- http://www.mileageplusupdates.com/faqs.html
- Additional answers from UA Insider (post 1387)
- more information about questions posed in this thread published to mileageplusupdates.com, per UA Insider
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.
- Will there be a calculator that shows PQD, and will that calculator be accurate?
- What exactly will count toward PQD?
United states:
Base fare and carrier-imposed surcharges
Flights flown by United, United Express, or Copa Airlines
Flights operated by a Star Alliance® or a MileagePlus partner airline and issued on a United ticket (ticket number starting with 016)
Economy Plus purchases
will count towards PQD.
Thus:
- The amount of co-pay when using miles to upgrade..
- The cost of PQMs/RDMs purchased when using the premier / award accelerator..
- The value of ETCs (or is it considered a discount from the fare?). (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include) -Note: the Mileage plus site indicates ETC's count towards PQD (12/16/13 imgonnafly)
- The face value e-certs and travel vouchers.. (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include)
- The cost of a paid upgrade..
- An extra seat purchase (such as for a customer of size or a musical instrument); it does not presently count toward PQM.
- Change fees.
- How will PQD be determined for UA metal segments without 016 stock ticket?
- What happens if I depart in December and return in January?
Just like PQM, PQD for the applicable part of fare for the segment is credited based on the departure date (year) of the segment flown. Segment fares are calculated using standard rules of the past. For the case cited there would be PQD credited in DEC 2013 (no value) and PQD applied to 2014 applicable to 2014 and 2015 status renewal. - How will UA evaluate the address issue for the PQD exemption?
- It is not clear how the timing of achieving the minimum PQD requirement will impact earning RPUs and GPUs. Examples:
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- Do only 1Ks/GSs earn additional RPUs by flying beyond the 100k mark?
- If a 1K crosses the 100,000 PQM mark in January 201x, the $10,000 PQD mark on December 31 201x, and ends up flying a total of 200,000 PQMs for the year 201x, how many RPUs / GPUs will be earned?
- Will Platinums earn 2 RPUs when crossing the 75k mark but none at incremental levels thereafter (e.g. a Plat who flies 100k EQMs, but does not meet the 1K spend, would *not* earn two more RPUs)?
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- How does IRROPs affect earning of PQDs?
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):
- You might not be hitting the PQD minimums as easily as you think you are, given exceptions, taxes, and the existence of cheap fares.
- It is possible for leisure travelers and even some business travelers to average well under 10cpm. This doesn't just affect "leisure 1Ks" and people on the edge of categories.
- Presidential Plus card members (exempted from Silver/Gold/Plat PQD requirements) are most likely exempted because the FlexPQM program would complicate matters.
- Manufacturing $25,000 spend might not actually be so hard. There's a whole forum on it.
- The exceptions don't really make sense where there is a revenue-sharing joint venture in place, such as with LH on TATL routes.
- Leaving UA for AA over objections to dollar-based status may be futile because all the majors will likely go to this model with the possible exception of the AS program which allows you to bank your DL and AA miles into one account (DL has already).
- UA is tracking spend on UA metal now.
- YQ, also known as the "international surcharge," is a carrier-imposed surcharge and is included in PQD.
2014 version of this thread can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1536552-mileageplus-premier-qualifying-dollar-pqd-requirement-discussion-thread-2014-a-15.html
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
MileagePlus Premier Qualifying Dollar (PQD) Requirement Discussion [ARCHIVE]
Jun 19, 2013, 3:30 pm
#1381
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: EWR, NJ
Programs: UA 2 MM, UA 1K
Posts: 663
More than 1300 posts in a day about this?!?
Maybe I am being too nonchalant as I easily hit 10K spend, but isn't it difficult to fly 100K miles on UA metal without spending 10K?
I mean this comes out to $100 spent per 1000 EQM's flown. With the exception of a few deep discounted international tickets and transcons, I would find it difficult to do 100K miles on less than $10K.
I realize this weeds out some mileage runners and segment runners, but isn't this really a small percentage of those with status?
Disclaimer: I didn't read all 1350 posts, so if this was said and commented on before, please reply with the post numbers.
Maybe I am being too nonchalant as I easily hit 10K spend, but isn't it difficult to fly 100K miles on UA metal without spending 10K?
I mean this comes out to $100 spent per 1000 EQM's flown. With the exception of a few deep discounted international tickets and transcons, I would find it difficult to do 100K miles on less than $10K.
I realize this weeds out some mileage runners and segment runners, but isn't this really a small percentage of those with status?
Disclaimer: I didn't read all 1350 posts, so if this was said and commented on before, please reply with the post numbers.
When I flew for work I would have had no problem meeting the $ requirements as most of it was business class. Now I buy W fares on long-haul flights to use my GPUs and to get my miles up. I add other trips when I find an interesting fare to a place I want to go.
I have been a loyal CO/US flier for over 30 years. I have the credit card so I will be able to hit Platinum next year but after that, who knows. I will not spend more on fares just to hit Platinum. I may take a few more trips if something is of interest and I'm close to the $ threshold, but that's it.
This mindset that you are either a "kettle", MRer or business traveler funded by work with no problem hitting the 1K bar is tiresome. There are a lot of us who like to fly and do so to get to places we want to visit. And we look for the best fares to do so.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:32 pm
#1382
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern Calif./Eastern Ida.
Programs: Amethyst Premier Plutonium Medallion
Posts: 20,642
it wont look like nickel and diming when the other benefits are gone, it will look like a good will gesture from UA to give gold/plat/1k a discount maybe eventually they'll figure out how to actually auction off F and that will come with an elite discount too instead of the inverse right now.
This mindset that you are either a "kettle", MRer or business traveler funded by work with no problem hitting the 1K bar is tiresome. There are a lot of us who like to fly and do so to get to places we want to visit. And we look for the best fares to do so.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:37 pm
#1383
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Westchester NY
Programs: UA GS 4+ MM
Posts: 373
IMO, don't think so. Value of 6 GPUs and 4 RPUs is easily in excess of $3,000 and perhaps as high as $8000 (unless, of course, the seat would otherwise go empty or the instruments go unused). So the spend United would have to mandate for a 1K waiver using a Chase credit card is out of reach for most of the public. The PR backlash of mandating $100,000+ annual card spend isn't worth the benefit.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:39 pm
#1384
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: 2012 Plat-2013 Plat-2014 Silver-2015 GM
Posts: 818
From your keyboard to my eye's, we'll see. Remember, we have a Management group that is scrambling to save their jobs. They need REVENUE. Nothing better than a year-long subscription for E+ with varying costs for each elite level. But, I personally think all this concern is for naught. Reason being, I don't think Smi/J and some of his Executive team will be around to implement it.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:39 pm
#1385
Moderator, Omni, Omni/PR, Omni/Games, FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Between DCA and IAD
Programs: UA 1K MM; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 67,136
Now, UA can certainly adjust future schedules more easily than short-term schedules... but no airline ever shrunk its way to profitability, either. @:-)
You're buying into a boogeyman which doesn't exist. The fraction of pax who actually do the majority of their flying on mistake fares and who extensively game the system is very small. You're seeing significant selection bias by observing FT where people who do those things congregate en masse--though even here, you clearly can see they're a minority.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:40 pm
#1386
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: UA GS, UA 2MM, HH LT Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 1,803
I don't do many mileage runs.. I've done a few at the end of the year to top off the account if I need to..most of my travel is either business where I use Concur and have to book the lowest coach fare..or planned personal trips.
I've been a 1K since the late 90s and I don't know what my actual spend has been each year..but I'm pretty sure it's under $10,000 per year and that's including taxes (I estimate $5,000-$8,000..probably on the higher end of that in recent years). Many of my flights are >10 CPM (in reality it'll need to be >~.11 to account for taxes). When I fly internationally 2-3 times per year I always buy W or higher to use GPU's so those are generally at least 10cpm..but I also fly quite a few transcon flights that cost <$400 round trip. If I maximize the routing on those I'll get over 6,000 pqm's reducing cpm by quite a bit.
Those that make it on segments or who fly heavily on shorter routes will have an advantage on the spend requirements. But those like me who mostly fly longer distances will be at a disadvantage.
I've been a 1K since the late 90s and I don't know what my actual spend has been each year..but I'm pretty sure it's under $10,000 per year and that's including taxes (I estimate $5,000-$8,000..probably on the higher end of that in recent years). Many of my flights are >10 CPM (in reality it'll need to be >~.11 to account for taxes). When I fly internationally 2-3 times per year I always buy W or higher to use GPU's so those are generally at least 10cpm..but I also fly quite a few transcon flights that cost <$400 round trip. If I maximize the routing on those I'll get over 6,000 pqm's reducing cpm by quite a bit.
Those that make it on segments or who fly heavily on shorter routes will have an advantage on the spend requirements. But those like me who mostly fly longer distances will be at a disadvantage.
I was surprised with my YTD completed travel (excludes booked travel not yet completed):
PQS 63.5
PQM 50,961
FARE $10,621
Taxes $1,470
CPM $0.21
Avg Tax 14%
I obviously take a lot of shorter flights
Based on the numbers, it looks like the MP changes will not affect me negatively.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:43 pm
#1387
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
Posts: 7,231
I'm going to Boston in a few days. I could have booked SEA-ORD-BOS-ORD-SEA and gotten 5,174 PQM round trip. Instead I booked SEA-IAH-BOS-SFO-SEA which was the same price and I'm getting 6,854 PQM. The fare is a W @$596 ($516 without tax)..so if I went through ORD I'd be right at 10cpm but since I chose IAH/SFO it's going to be 7.5cpm.
The IAH/SFO routings are perfectly legal.. I'm not adding in 6 different stops all over the country.. I'm flying on the same number of flight segments that would be required to get from SEA-BOS (2 each way). If they wanted to discourage it they would simply disallow the IAH/SFO connections and force me to go through ORD, DEN, EWR, or IAH..but they don't.
I get the reason for the change.. miles flown all by itself is not the best indicator of profitability when someone can pay the same fare for 2 different routings with significantly different PQMs. Still, it's disappointing to me and it may make it more difficult or impossible for me to keep earning 1K each year. I'm not going to be irrational about it...if I as a customer no longer meet their standards at the level that I've grown accustomed I'll have to deal with it and explore other options.
The IAH/SFO routings are perfectly legal.. I'm not adding in 6 different stops all over the country.. I'm flying on the same number of flight segments that would be required to get from SEA-BOS (2 each way). If they wanted to discourage it they would simply disallow the IAH/SFO connections and force me to go through ORD, DEN, EWR, or IAH..but they don't.
I get the reason for the change.. miles flown all by itself is not the best indicator of profitability when someone can pay the same fare for 2 different routings with significantly different PQMs. Still, it's disappointing to me and it may make it more difficult or impossible for me to keep earning 1K each year. I'm not going to be irrational about it...if I as a customer no longer meet their standards at the level that I've grown accustomed I'll have to deal with it and explore other options.
I think that the attitude you express in your last paragraph is the best way to go forward. Figure out what you can do and what you can't do, and make the most of that. Personally, I'll be 1K some years, and a high-mileage Platinum other years. I'm not totally convinced that life as a platinum is going to be all that bad since I won't be the only one impacted by these new rules. Time will tell...
Jun 19, 2013, 3:44 pm
#1388
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 8,634
I got tired of wondering about my situation so I pulled my 2013 records and tallied everything up so I'd have some idea of what these changes really mean to me. Most years I have no international travel (including 2013 YTD)
I was surprised with my YTD completed travel (excludes booked travel not yet completed):
PQS 63.5
PQM 50,961
FARE $10,621
Taxes $1,470
CPM $0.21
Avg Tax 14%
I obviously take a lot of shorter flights Based on the numbers, it looks like the MP changes will not affect me negatively.
I was surprised with my YTD completed travel (excludes booked travel not yet completed):
PQS 63.5
PQM 50,961
FARE $10,621
Taxes $1,470
CPM $0.21
Avg Tax 14%
I obviously take a lot of shorter flights
Based on the numbers, it looks like the MP changes will not affect me negatively.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:50 pm
#1389
Company Representative, United Airlines
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, Houston, or somewhere in between
Posts: 2,176
Hi everyone,
Here’s an update for you (figured it was better to post this now as opposed to morning, even if we’re close to 5pm CDT
). As I mentioned in my earlier note, while many of your questions fall into the category of ‘more details to come’, here are some questions that I’m able to answer for you right now.
Yes, if it is an eligible United, United Express, Copa Airlines or MileagePlus partner-operated flight segment.
Eligible flight segments operated by United, United Express and Copa Airlines count toward PQD even if on non-016 tickets.
Yes, PQD counts towards the year in which you take the flight. If you booked a PQD eligible ticket in 2013 with a departure date in 2014, you will earn PQDs towards 2014 qualification upon completing each flight segment. This is how PQM and PQS are applied today.
Yes. In 2014, YQ is a ‘carrier-imposed surcharge’ that we currently intend to include in PQDs.
Yes, so long as it is a MileagePlus Chase co-branded credit card issued in the United States. That includes cards that are no longer marketed to new customers.
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager – Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
Here’s an update for you (figured it was better to post this now as opposed to morning, even if we’re close to 5pm CDT
). As I mentioned in my earlier note, while many of your questions fall into the category of ‘more details to come’, here are some questions that I’m able to answer for you right now.
Am I guaranteed 016 ticket stock and PQD if I purchase through United.com?
Will a mixed itinerary count if it is ticketed by OA since that's the first segment but later segments are on United?
...
Do non 016 tickets at least count UA/UA Express segments?
...
Do non 016 tickets at least count UA/UA Express segments?
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager – Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
Jun 19, 2013, 3:53 pm
#1390
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
Just Premier Platinum from now on......looks like you'll take a major hit!
CPU's 16/25 this year......you'll be lucky to be 5/25 in 2015
RPU"s 5/5 this year.........the most you will get is 2 and they may not clear
GPU's 5/5 this year.........oh darn.....those are gone too!
CPU's 16/25 this year......you'll be lucky to be 5/25 in 2015
RPU"s 5/5 this year.........the most you will get is 2 and they may not clear
GPU's 5/5 this year.........oh darn.....those are gone too!
Jun 19, 2013, 3:53 pm
#1391
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Excellent point.
And there is a larger one, too.
UNITED keeps dicking with its programs. MM qualification and benefits, elite qualification and benefits, fees, etc.
To me, there is way, way too much uncertainty with regard to what the program will be next year or next week to bank on it.
I have no faith that what I 'earn' today will be honored tomorrow.
With that kind of uncertainty one would be quite foolish to go out of their way to be loyal.
And there is a larger one, too.
UNITED keeps dicking with its programs. MM qualification and benefits, elite qualification and benefits, fees, etc.
To me, there is way, way too much uncertainty with regard to what the program will be next year or next week to bank on it.
I have no faith that what I 'earn' today will be honored tomorrow.
With that kind of uncertainty one would be quite foolish to go out of their way to be loyal.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:55 pm
#1392
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern Calif./Eastern Ida.
Programs: Amethyst Premier Plutonium Medallion
Posts: 20,642
I got tired of wondering about my situation so I pulled my 2013 records and tallied everything up so I'd have some idea of what these changes really mean to me. Most years I have no international travel (including 2013 YTD)
I was surprised with my YTD completed travel (excludes booked travel not yet completed):
PQS 63.5
PQM 50,961
FARE $10,621
Taxes $1,470
CPM $0.21
Avg Tax 14%
I obviously take a lot of shorter flights Based on the numbers, it looks like the MP changes will not affect me negatively.
I was surprised with my YTD completed travel (excludes booked travel not yet completed):
PQS 63.5
PQM 50,961
FARE $10,621
Taxes $1,470
CPM $0.21
Avg Tax 14%
I obviously take a lot of shorter flights
Based on the numbers, it looks like the MP changes will not affect me negatively.Recently (last 2 months) I have paid anywhere from $161.80 to $541.30 for a transcon one way itinerary earning about 2500pqm between varying city pairs (SMF/SFO->NYC/RSW/RDU).
The breakpoint is a fare around $310 one way, depending on airport taxes and fees of where you connect, come, and go from.
SMF-LAX-EWR, for instance, priced at $161.80 one way, or $130.23 PQD. This would earn $.0521 PQD/PQM, or about half of what you'd need to average.
Basically we all need to get used to flying Ws and up to hit the minimums if your primary travel is transcon. Flying regionally it may not be quite as painful.
So, the take home message is that UA wants an elite like me to pay twice as much for my tickets to get the same benefits.
No thanks. If I am going to pay that much to fly transcon, I will status match to AS and not sweat the upgrades to boot.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:56 pm
#1393
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
I'm certainly no lawyer, just a member of a marketing team but the corporate parent pounds it into us about how we can do these sorts of things even if we didn't collude because it appears like collusion and if we even were seen speaking a competitor at a trade show (which we do all the time) we're open to litigation.
they seem to take it pretty seriously.
they seem to take it pretty seriously.
Copying/mimicking is not.
Putting in hi-def TVs like your competitor at the next trade show is not collusion.
To wit:
1. Duracell/Energizer with dates on batteries and the little "power" item.
2. Beer companies (and now Coke) with cold-"detection" cans.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:57 pm
#1394
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
Posts: 7,231
Thanks very much for the update and being the (sometimes very unpopular) messenger.
I have to say that language like this ("In 2014", "currently intend") really makes me nervous about the future of this process.
Jun 19, 2013, 3:58 pm
#1395
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: UA GS, UA 2MM, HH LT Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 1,803
I did a very basic back of the envelope calculation with my recent fares.
Recently (last 2 months) I have paid anywhere from $161.80 to $541.30 for a transcon one way itinerary earning about 2500pqm between varying city pairs (SMF/SFO->NYC/RSW/RDU).
The breakpoint is a fare around $310 one way, depending on airport taxes and fees of where you connect, come, and go from.
SMF-LAX-EWR, for instance, priced at $161.80 one way, or $130.23 PQD. This would earn $.0521 PQD/PQM, or about half of what you'd need to average.
Basically we all need to get used to flying Ws and up to hit the minimums if your primary travel is transcon. Flying regionally it may not be quite as painful.
So, the take home message is that UA wants an elite like me to pay twice as much for my tickets to get the same benefits.
No thanks. If I am going to pay that much to fly transcon, I will status match to AS and not sweat the upgrades to boot.
Recently (last 2 months) I have paid anywhere from $161.80 to $541.30 for a transcon one way itinerary earning about 2500pqm between varying city pairs (SMF/SFO->NYC/RSW/RDU).
The breakpoint is a fare around $310 one way, depending on airport taxes and fees of where you connect, come, and go from.
SMF-LAX-EWR, for instance, priced at $161.80 one way, or $130.23 PQD. This would earn $.0521 PQD/PQM, or about half of what you'd need to average.
Basically we all need to get used to flying Ws and up to hit the minimums if your primary travel is transcon. Flying regionally it may not be quite as painful.
So, the take home message is that UA wants an elite like me to pay twice as much for my tickets to get the same benefits.
No thanks. If I am going to pay that much to fly transcon, I will status match to AS and not sweat the upgrades to boot.
Fares Flights
Y 2
B 0
M 3
E 4
U 7
H 6
Q 19
V 0
W 4
S 3
T 6
K 3
L 6
G 0