UALRETIREE

UAL's loyal and valued Frequent Flyers are not the only ones seeing their benefits denigrated by Smisek's CO takeover. Legacy UAL employees (pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, customer service agents) have had to adapt to the policies and procedures of Continental. Smisek has also reduced UAL retiree earned medical and retiree benefits to those of CO. Also, have you noticed any difference in trying to ensure a reservation or contact the 'new United'? If you have a problem it is because Continental's antiquated computer system has replaced UAL's user-friendly and modern system. Write [email protected] or [email protected] with your complaints.

dgcpaphd

Hello UALRETIREE,

Welcome to flyertalk.

Thanks very much for letting us know that we million-milers are not the only people demoted by the new UA management.

Thanks also for the e-mail addresses. We have used them countless times. In response to our e-mails, we either received false and misleading responses or canned responses that did not answer our concerns. Therefore, writing to UA is an exercise in futility.

Based on this thread content, the content of many other threads that discuss the unhappiness of various frequent flyer members, together with what you just reported, one has to wonder how the new UA management would like it if they had their own benefits slashed.

One also has to wonder how the new UA management would like it if they, too, were the recipients of false and misleading statements and breached “lifetime” promises made to them.

Given what you reported and given the contents of the myriad of complaints about the new UA management, it is almost as though there was an invasion of the old UA and the invaders (the new UA management) were intent on destruction of the pre merger fine reputation of the company.
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Baze

Don't change them after 30 years? The MM program has changed a few times just in the last 10 years. CR-1's weren't around 30 years ago. SWU's weren't around 30 years ago. Was the MM program even around 30 years ago? You lost a lot of credibility with that statement.

abaheti

i understand where you're coming from. However, i would ask anyone in touch with UA or pursuing legal avenues that we do not allow divide and conquer. I belived the promises and flew UA despite higher prices and inconvenient connections and inferior international quality.

For those of us who were within a short distance of MM but not quite there, the loss of benefits is just as real. I worked for years to get to MM and would not like to lose out because i was just shy pre-merger. I am 31k shy. Should 900k BIS not count?

I, and many others, detrimentally relied on the promises of lifetime Premier Exec -- not 50k which never ever once appeared in the materials asking me for loyalty.

greg99

I agree, but I was at 865K BIS - should that not count, either?

Greg

UrbaneGent

In millionmilersunited.com forum:


From an article in 2005:

"Of the 120 million frequent-flier club members of all the world's airlines, Petersen estimates, about 307,000 have earned more than 1 million miles in at least one airline's program. That's about one in 400. About 70% of the mileage millionaires live in North America, and about 250,000 of them are in the programs of American, United and Delta, he says."

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...ers-usat_x.htm''

So however many MP members there are figure .25% are MM's if this holds true.

The airlines are secretive about all this.

abaheti

Yup. You should. My point is that if folks are making a legal argument, detrimental reliance applies to those of us who got close and did so by changing our behavior and incurring costs based on PMUA's promises. Regardless of how close we got

As i said in my first ever post, it is going to be hard to draw a line.

I can understand the logic of only dealing with pre-merger MMs from UA's perspective, but the rest of us matter. I spent a lot of money and BIS miles that could have been spent even on PMCO and i would be locked in, let alone other airlines that counted credit card points.

u2vox

This.

I've mentioned this several times up thread. Please, for anyoning arguing or advocating for change, a simple line in the sand grandfathering is NOT the answer either. It's a slippery, slippery slope.

dgcpaphd

Of course your miles should count. I can relate to how you feel about this entire travesty played on the loyal customers of UA.

If the new UA management had any integrity or pride in accomplishment, it would not have disturbed the million-mile program. The million-mile program was a semi-separate division within the Mileage Plus frequent flyer program that had distinct "lifetime" promised benefits. The million-mile program took years before one achieved that status.

Despite the above facts, the new UA wrecking crew (management), systematically dismantled each UA element of Mileage Plus program and gave favoritism treatment to the Continental side of the merger.

In the process, as shown up thread, this same management made intentionally false and misleading statements (regarding promised "lifetime" benefits) to various individuals, including a reporter from the WSJ.

Furthermore, this same UA management, knowingly and intentionally, breached advertising that was posted to united.com via the FAQ section concerning promised "lifetime" benefits of the million-mile program. Given the callous disregard shown for UA passengers by the new UA management, how can anyone trust a management that behaves that way?

The conduct of the new UA management will eventually force UA back to the bankruptcy court.

Management without credibility and/or integrity is a management that is doomed for failure.
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Ukalien

I have total empathy for these two points of view.

Customer satisfaction means nothing. Customer LOYALTY means EVERYTHING!

http://www.millionmilersunited.com/

UrbaneGent

Hello Monsieur Baze,

Before you go right for my jugular, Kind Sir, you know where i stand having read all my posts, as well as my, as you say, poorly written* Million Milers United pages. I have always stated UA upped the bennies over time...to be competitive, especially when the other airlines came up with their own million mile programs.

I lose credibility? I think I have made my own personal stance crystal clear from my first post months back and haven't wavered since. As a matter of fact, I would think my fellow FTers would be sick and tired hearing me say the same exact thing over and over again.

I stated in my post you reference, United should NOT:

".....market "LIFETIME" benefits to MMilers and then change the benefits after THIRTY YEARS...."

I see where you are coming from, but I'm referring to the word "LIFETIME". United kept stating for decades when one got to MMiler status they would receive benefits for a LIFETIME. United added to the benefits over time but never took them away until this past month.

From previous posts on here, I was under the assumption the MMiler program started in the 1980s, if I am not correct, someone please tell me. I DO know when I started my heavy traveling in 1994 with UA, the MMiler program was in effect.

Maybe lf Tom has the answer to the beginnings of the Million Miler program and perhaps can be so kind to enlighten both of us.

Very Truly Yours,

UG

*I had all the pages re-written/edited on MMU in your honour.

PS I do need help with one fact. When CO was in bankruptcy, they offered some program, I'm not clear on. If someone flew X amount of miles over three years they would get some status, which was later grandfathered into the MMiler program. What is the true story about that?

dgcpaphd

Hi, UG -

The article you cited is more than seven years old. The articled stated, seven years ago, there were “120 million frequent-flier club members of all the world’s airlines.”

Please note 120 million in ALL airlines in the WORLD - seven years ago.

However, according to Jeff Foland, as of last year, United had 80 million registered frequent fliers, or two thirds of the 120 million cited in the seven-year old article.

It does not require a lot to realize that the seven-year-old article was either incorrect or it is markedly out-of-date.

Consequently, as I stated up thread, there is presently no way for any of us to determine the UA population of the million-mile members as asked by the OP.

The article also stated that 250,000 members of the 120 million were “mileage millionaires.” This is another piece of misleading information, because each airline has different methods of determining million-mile status. For example, UA required BIS - only, American Airlines allowed miles from other carriers in addition to credit card miles and Delta had a similar program.

Therefore, at the present time, we do not know how many million-mile fliers are registered with UA.
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UrbaneGent

Very slippery and an argument made in the MMU letter.

Thank you, Kind Sir, I figured since PMUA MM had the toughest and longest haul having to fly an actual 1,000,000 miles, there would be less of us. Also, a few colleagues of mine are now 3 & 4 Million Milers on the new United and they openly admit to flying just a fraction of those miles.

Fredd

Agreed. A key point mentioned again is "promises of lifetime Premier Exec." IMO UA was promising the lifetime benefits associated with Premier Executive status. Over the years, it added the one-time SWUS and the annual CR-1s / Regionals to the package of lifetime benefits.

UA made the decision to convert PMCO IEs to "lifetime 1Ks," as a "generous resolution", and if had treated PMUA Million Mile Flyers with comparable fairness, this thread would not have nearly 4000 posts and well over 200,000 views.

As to those shy of 1 MM at the end of 2011, imagine if UA had issued a challenge with a time limit, giving customers a chance to spend and fly their way up to a meaningful MM status by the end of 2012, for example. Think of the revenue that would have generated.

That's not part of UA's plan though. Regionals? SWUs? Someday we may look back even on 2012 as the "good old days."

And I've learned a new legal expression, "detrimental reliance." It seems to go hand-in-hand with "inducement."

kokonutz

Didn't UNITED grandfather in the CO Infinity Elites (is that the right name?)

If so, I fail to see why they would not grandfather in PMUA MMers.

Why the different treatment of 'lifetime' benefits?