johnndor

I have a friend (no, really!) who is going through a divorce at the moment, where the husband accumulated a substantial amount of miles/points due to business travel while thye were married.

In the settlement, my friend wants to know if these should be treated as assets, to be divided more-or-less equally.

Does anyone have any opinion on this or know of where the case has come up before? I won't tell you right now which party my friend is (husband or wife) so I won't bias your response.

(Any advice given will be taken freely without liability, and a divorce lawyer will be retained (is already, actually) to give my friend the final recommendation.)

Thanks to all!

pointsgirl

No I do not think of it that way. They should NOT be considered as assets to be divided equally.

hfly

He earned them for time he spent in a plane, if she has an FF account, she earned them when she flew. This isn't cash, and as the airlines state quite clearly they do not have a cash value. Therefore they probably won't be and shouldn't be treated as community property.

wideman

In most cases, if the miles were accrued during the marriage, the miles would become a marital asset and therefore subject to becoming part of the settlement. (In states that are not common property states, marital assets include most things that either were acquired or increased in value during the course of the marriage.)
Of course, the tricky part would be to assign a value to the miles, but that's a whole 'nother issue.

There's no reason that the miles themselves would need to be divided. Rather, they -- or more specifically, their monetary value -- would become part of the pool of assets to be divided. For example, if the assets get split 50-50 and the miles are valued at $10,000, one person could get all of the miles, and the other would get $10,000 worth of other assets.

Leisuremiles

Miles are not taxable (yet)and as others have stated do not have a cash value, if the airlines do not treat them as a liability for accounting reasons, your friend shouldn't treat them as an asset. Perhaps, he/she could offer the soon to be ex a one-way ticket somewhere far away.

Do you think we should make potential spouses sign pre-nups specifically pertaining to mileage?



[This message has been edited by Leisuremiles (edited 06-18-2002).]

FlyingRev

Have you encouraged your friends to go to counseling? It would be far better if their marriage could be saved than to go through a divorce. I will keep him and his wife in my prayers.

johnndor

Thanks Flyingrev, unfortunately I think it is beyond counseling.

Thanks to everyone else, too. I found an article from the '98 InsideFlyer - looks like each airline/program has a different policy, regardless of what the divorce decree (or will) may say.

Now, I'm interested if there are any (legal) precedents out there?

cactuspete

Sure. Tell that to opposing counsel.

jsmeeker

What have other divorces cases shown in the state where they will get divorced? That is where you will find your answer.

kellystee

"He earned them for time he spent in a plane, if she has an FF account, she earned them when she flew. This isn't cash, and as the airlines state quite clearly they do not have a cash value. Therefore they probably won't be and shouldn't be treated as community property." - hfly

Hey! I don't think it's fair to say that since he "earned" them, he's entitled to them. What if she's at home with the kids each day while he's out earning miles?? Does that mean she she gets to keep the kids because she "earned" them. ) In a divorce, even though the husband may have earned all the income, he's still required to split the assets equally even though they may have been bought with all his "earned" income. The wife may be doing her part in the household. I think she's entitled to her half of the points!!

Sincerely,
FT Women Activist
)

Quokka

If a lawyer who knows his state's divorce laws has been retained to give the final recommendation, then why the heck are you soliciting opinions from people who are neither lawyers nor familiar with the laws of this unnamed state even if they are lawyers?


[This message has been edited by Quokka (edited 06-18-2002).]

johnndor

The state in this case is Kansas.

I am asking because although divorce lawyers are experts in divorce, the audience here has a far more reaching field of knowledge about miles!

ranles

I am with FlyingRev and Quokka.

Maybe they should take some mileage and go on a trip to try to "find" what they seem to have lost in their relationship.

In any case, our opinion are just that.

A good friend of mine left her husband under threat of being killed. She left two teenage daughters behind. She sought NO payments, as he told her she would never collect them as she would be dead. She believed him (I did too) and that was that.

So what the law say and what happens is often somewhat apart.

People pledge to "love...each other until...". Then 1/2 of those people change there feelings sooo much that they cannot continue to live with that person anymore. Go figure? Divorce and death. Estates often cause the same type fueds.

wideman

Looks like we have an excellent race for who can come up with the most absurd comment -- well done, FTers!

Currently tied for 3rd place are hfly and pointsgirl, who are both clueless about marital assets.

Holding down 2nd place is flyingrev, and his gratuitous advice: divorce can be difficult enough without well-meaning outsiders who offer answers while being ignorant of the issues.

Well ahead of the pack in 1st place is ranles, who provides her/his advice in the context of divorce actions that are accompanied by death threats. Well done, ranles, to make the connection between the original poster's question and a putative homicidal maniac.

But the day is still young. Let's see what the next batch of posts will bring.

Wideman

FrankoBonanzo

Since frequent flier miles cannot be moved between frequent flier accounts, I don't see how she can gain ownership of any of the miles. Even if he said he didn't want them I don't think the airlines would allow them to be moved.

It may be possible for her to try to receive payment for a portion of the value of the outstanding miles, but then paying for lawyers to argue over the value of those miles may end up costing more than it's worth.