farwest101

Agreed.

The card pimps simply have to own up to fact that when cash is shoved under some people's noses for little or no effort, some people's moral and ethical compass can "change".

Go read MMS' review about the Ink cards and judge for yourself. Not one caution about using a biz card for personal expenses (yet 8 referral links to an Ink card application). Considering his readership is focused on noobs (hence the need for all the arrows and pics?), seems more than irresponsible...

But hey, I'm sure those fat referral bonuses don't color his objectivity in the least

Million Mile Secrets

Actually, you didn't ask a question in your earlier post on this thread.

Your post in #1156 says:You make statements (not ask questions):
And:
Except that it is a false statement and you don't provide a link to the post where I allegedly made that statement.

I've been doing some digging and here are two posts where I mention getting the bonus for the 2nd time on the Ink Bold.

Post 1 - There is no comment from you and I don't suggest getting the Ink Bold for only 25,000 points instead of 50,000 points in the post.

Post 2: You left a comment on this post asking why I didn't apply for the Ink Plus with the 0% APR and I replied to your comment explaining why I didn't apply for the Ink Plus, but chose the Ink Bold instead.

So both your statements in #1156 are false - I didn't suggest getting the Ink Bold for only 25K points when I got a 2nd Ink Bold. And I answered your comment.

And for the record, the referral on the Ink Plus and Ink Bold at the time the post was written was the same.

Oh, and the Chase Ink cards are churnable , so it isn't "one time" as you suggest.

amolkold

First off, my question referred to the one in this thread.

Second, look at your chart, which clearly states the option for the 25K bonus, and read one of your comments:

This is poor advice (that you should burn an inquiry/app on a 25K bonus). Your intentions of advertising getting multiple Ink Bolds can't be taken separately from your position as an affiliate for said card, because after all, enticing readers to apply for a 2nd Ink Bold is directly tied to your main revenue stream. Having them actually use it isn't. At the time of no $5K spend offer, convincing them that a 25K bonus for 1 spend is in poor form, because we all know the Ink Bold is a great card to actually spend on.

If you are talking about having trouble of hitting $10K spend, then even a MENTION of the Ink Plus and its 0% interest for 6 months should be warranted (after all, it earns you the same income, right?). The only mention is in my comment. In regards to the response, I'll concede to you, though you never addressed the benefits of the Ink Plus offer.

Although I do commend you for listening to my other feedback, in showing how half the annual fees were not waived in that churn. I'm just trying to keep you honest.

Also, I never suggested these are one-time deals, but each application is an inquiry, so there's still an opportunity cost!

You can try to mince my argument and throw out words like "defamation," but the facts and general gist of my argument are not false.

What I want to see is if the $5K offer begins to die and a non-affiliate $10K spend offer pops up -- would bloggers make the same recommendations regarding the 25K for first spend bonus if that one didn't earn a referral credit?

FlyFasterFlyFarther

It seems like there are two entirely separate sorts of complaints about blogs in this thread, and they should probably be kept a bit more distinct.

1. Blogs that offer really good advice, but offer it to the masses, and we can't keep it secret/to ourselves. The fear is that when more people know about the deals, the deals won't last.

2. Blogs that offer really bad advice.

And the theory about the motives for both types of blogs is that they are doing it for the credit card revenue. In the first case, 'spoonfeeding the masses' is about getting hits and attention and the opportunity for credit card clicks. In the second case, 'misleading the masses' is about getting ill-informed folks to click on credit card applications.

Is that an accurate summary?

If so, let's not confuse the two. Most of the complaints about Million Mile Secrets are about the first type, and whether it's fair or not to criticize sharing information broadly I don't think it's really a criticism that he's not providing good and useful information to the masses.

Similarly it amazes me how much of a pass some bloggers like TPG seem to get for the second type.

Let's also not forget when criticizing bloggers for type 2, that when their advice differs from perfect maximization as practiced here, that the advice is still really really good compared to what most of these readers would know to do otherwise. They're probably being made better off compared to their real world alternatives rather than worse off.

Million Mile Secrets

Amol,

I don't mention getting the Ink Bold for 25K points in the blog post. In fact, I say:

"Many credit cards require you to complete a certain minimum amount of spending before receiving the sign-up bonus. I am careful to see that I can complete the minimum spending and use the 40+ ways to complete minimum spending requirements."

And if you read the complete response to the comment which you selectively quote, I write:

"We can do $1,000 a month in Amazon Payments, $1,000 a month for our rent using William Paid, and ~$1,000 a month in regular expenses (insurance, groceries, loans etc.). That’s $3,000 a month or ~$12,000 in 4 months. Emily is also lucky to be in a graduate program where she can pay for 1 class at a time with only a $15 fee and she has a few reimbursable business expenses. And I will pay a fee to pay my student loans with a credit card. We also experiment with pre-paid cards (more coming soon). I don’t mind paying a 3% fee to pay rent and student loans just to get the sign-up bonus"

I don't have a problem hitting the $10K spend on the Ink Bold, and I mention how I will meet it in response to a question asking how I meet the minimum spending and which you quote partially above.

I'm very clear that I don't mind paying a 3% fee to pay rent and loans to get the sign-up bonus.

I doubt the above will sway you from the "bloggers bad" meme, so let's move on.

sbm12

Can I add other types of complaints?

• Bad writing
• Self-proclaimed "travel" bloggers who don't actually travel
• Lack of any original content
• Lack of any useful insight on the "story"

Many more, I'm sure...

FlyFasterFlyFarther

Hah, for sure! I guess I meant complaints as they relate to credit cards, it's sort of interesting that there are almost two diametrically opposed situations which folks describe and relate to credit cards and which posters here also claim do damage.

The list you offer certainly represents some blogs, but that just makes them uninteresting and not worth reading, doesn't really do any harm, right?

Point though is that there are very different types of complaints about blogs, it seems here like we're conflating those complaints, and also seem to speak in huge generalities as though each complaint applies to all blogs. In fact, different blogs are good or bad for different reasons, and do well or not in varying degrees along different dimensions.

There are certainly a large number of blogs, and a whole lot more than there were a year or two years or five years ago. Some of them are good, some are bad, some have flashes of brilliance and peter out since it seems to take quite a lot to consistently deliver good content over a long period of time. We probably ought to temper the negativity with supportive comments for those that actually do a good job. (sbm12 I think your blog has its own niche, is sometimes quite good, and sometimes is of little interest to me -- but that just makes another point that even the good blogs have different target audiences, not everyone will enjoy or get value out of each one).

Scottrick

I just had this exact conversation with a family member (who I encouraged to apply using someone else's link, btw). Fortunately he hasn't redeemed his points for cash yet, but I worry...

Not everyone is clear on how this game works, even after you explain it for the tenth time.

Scottrick

Since my name was brought up, I'll just clarify what happened in my case.

(1) I wasn't denied by FlexOffers, but not everyone is automatically approved.
(2) FlexOffers is what most travel bloggers I'm aware of use (and I believe every CC affiliate on BA, except me). Technically the blogger is a "sub-affiliate" and FlexOffers is the actual "affiliate."
(3) Even after accepted as a sub-affiliate, your domain still has to be presented to the banks and approved.
(4) I had problems with #3, and I found FlexOffers less than forthcoming about the actual problem or possible solutions. My comment about "Hack" in my title is the best explanation I got. It got to be such a hassle that working with FlexOffers wasn't worth the revenue they provided.
(5) I was eventually approached by another affiliate, who has been incredibly helpful. I get paid less, but I actually enjoy working with them.
(6) I have always tried to be transparent. Definitely some of my links are not the best. I still have the old 30K offer for US Airways, for example. But in deference to my affiliate manager, in those cases I list both the affiliate link AND the best offer I'm aware of. If it's not the best offer, let me know.

amolkold

Then let's just agree to disagree. What we're saying is both true but we are coming from different places (and reading different paragraphs of the same post).

And that's the thing, I don't think that nor did I say that about (most) blogs. You have cited me in your posts and I have forwarded information to you. I have commented positive remarks on some of your credit card series posts (for example, the "Big Spender" series is done well and a uniquely good resource, despite being ripe with affiliate links). When bloggers get something wrong, I often will comment to point it out and they will correct it with no problem. If I post something wrong, I make a correction, too.

But when it's poor information or rehashes of someone else posts to directly drive credit card referrals, that's when I start calling people out (and yes, I'll make a video here or there). And yes, you said the 25K bonus is "an option" (in your words). I'm not worried about you being able to meet the $10K spend, but to proffer up the lower bonus as "an option" to your not-as-savvy readers is poor advice.

HikerT

That's the key, particularly when one option benefits the blogger while the other does not, and rationale is given to go with the lesser offer.

Back to the naughty list for the US Airways card, milevalue continues to promote the lesser affiliate offer. Today he linked to it no less than 4 times in his post. When he announced less than a month ago that he would be adding affiliate links, he assured readers he would always promote the best offer, yet last week when the US affiliate offer came out he claimed the Chairmain's offer was expired and did not link to it. I highlighted this in the comments yet he continues to ignore the feedback that there is a better offer.

Edit: I see he's now claiming in the comments that the Chariman's offer is only for US employees. Really? How many top tier US elites are US employees? It's pretty easy to deduct using logic that the wording in the employee field is applicable for that field only, and should be left blank if not an employee. As far as being for top tier elites only, so we're going to play the ethics card? But we are going to promote free one way segments that push ethical boundaries? Like the other bloggers that are playing the ethics card with the US offer, it seems to only come up when it serves a purpose. He also didn't seem to have a problem promoting the expired Citi AA offers. I wonder if that will change too?

mnscout

As much as I hate leaving anything on the table, I don't see anything wrong in mentioning that 25K points is "an option". It is an option! Is it a good option? No, but with a $10,000 spend, which is a monstrous spend for "not-initiated" getting a 25K points bonus is at least viable one.

RetiredRoadWarrior

What is unethical about free one-ways?

amolkold

Which led to my second point -- if getting $10k spend is difficult (on a card like the Ink which is a great card to spend on for otherwise non-CC expenses), then why not mention the Ink Plus, where you can spread that $10k out over an extra 3-month buffer?

gpapadop

is to have MMS and Amol settle this in a fistfight! I volunteer to be the judge

Very interesting discussion guys, I am enjoying it.

I better shut up now because the moderator may accuse me of promoting my blog...which, coincidentally, happens to write about this stuff!!!

I think we should have tournaments like they do in kickboxing

Amol vs MMS
Gary Leff vs Chris Elliott
Delta Points vs (the highest bidder?)

This whole space is just very interesting to watch it develop...and we certainly need Amol to make more videos!!!!

Merry Christmas everyone, lets step back a bit and consider how blessed we all are^


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