LH in Europe - downgraded catering (J+Y) 2011 edition
Jan 5, 2011, 3:28 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CH, D, USA
Posts: 1,729
LH in Europe - downgraded catering (J+Y) 2011 edition
There is a lot of discussion about the new seat and reduced recline and no wardrobe and debate whether or not LH is improving or reducing the quality.
However, I find there has been a large downgrade in catering quality and quantity throughout Europe, with only few exceptions. For me, this is the immediate issue as it is already in effect now, where as planes are just starting to be retrofit.
I am starting this thread based on a few recent flights, and almost no discussion in the cabin thread. (Which is probably meant to be more about the new cabin and less about catering).
My feeling is also that the drink selection in C was reduced, can anybody confirm this?
FRA-TLL in Y:
TLL-FRA in Y:
Picture:
TLL-FRA in C:
Picture:
We had some specials on these trips also, and there the quantity is much greater. Even with the small tray, it doesn't have to be that small.
Child meal, the main course was double the size and it was really nice!
Gluten-free, also double the size, even though not very good:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_3nyRTpDospU/TS...10104-1905.jpg
I was talking to the purser a bit, it seems with the new cabin LH will not have any space to store trays for Y pax, and not even enough space for the large trays for C. There will be gallies as small as Easyjet or Germanwings have them. Only highest service level routes will have dedicated aircraft with slightly larger gallies. I think there are now four levels in Business and five in Economy. And the main problem is that level three and two are getting much less than before, and many flights have been declassified.
While Y catering on domestic flights is certainly improved, it seems most of the flights which had a proper meal before have now been downgraded to only a snack in Y and a miniscule meal in C. Why should we accept this?
Only Lisbon, Athens, Moscow - the highest European service level seems to still be at the same level.
I urge everybody to complain as often as you can. They should at least put on the larger main course dish and the salad again.
However, I find there has been a large downgrade in catering quality and quantity throughout Europe, with only few exceptions. For me, this is the immediate issue as it is already in effect now, where as planes are just starting to be retrofit.
I am starting this thread based on a few recent flights, and almost no discussion in the cabin thread. (Which is probably meant to be more about the new cabin and less about catering).
My feeling is also that the drink selection in C was reduced, can anybody confirm this?
FRA-TLL in Y:
TLL-FRA in Y:
Picture:
TLL-FRA in C:
Picture:
We had some specials on these trips also, and there the quantity is much greater. Even with the small tray, it doesn't have to be that small.
Child meal, the main course was double the size and it was really nice!
Gluten-free, also double the size, even though not very good:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_3nyRTpDospU/TS...10104-1905.jpg
I was talking to the purser a bit, it seems with the new cabin LH will not have any space to store trays for Y pax, and not even enough space for the large trays for C. There will be gallies as small as Easyjet or Germanwings have them. Only highest service level routes will have dedicated aircraft with slightly larger gallies. I think there are now four levels in Business and five in Economy. And the main problem is that level three and two are getting much less than before, and many flights have been declassified.
While Y catering on domestic flights is certainly improved, it seems most of the flights which had a proper meal before have now been downgraded to only a snack in Y and a miniscule meal in C. Why should we accept this?
Only Lisbon, Athens, Moscow - the highest European service level seems to still be at the same level.
I urge everybody to complain as often as you can. They should at least put on the larger main course dish and the salad again.
Jan 5, 2011, 5:01 am
#2
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,293
TLL and HEL used to get the higher service level than the usual 2-2.30h flights because of the competition. This has now been rolled back, hence you see the reduced offering in C and Y.
What you were served in C is this: (level 3)
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink
This is higher level 4.
The levels below it are:
and the short domestic hop:
What you were served in C is this: (level 3)
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink
This is higher level 4.
The levels below it are:
and the short domestic hop:
Jan 5, 2011, 5:14 am
#3
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,293
The six levels in economy are:
One:
Two:
Three:
Four:
Five:
Six:
Overall a definite improvement in eco compared to the nothing-sandwich-pasta-big meat meal level system earlier.
We looked at the galley space during the NEK presentation in FRA and in the A320 and 319 the space has increased by one at the expense of the wardrobe. The limited space for C catering is because the larger load for the new Y catering. Also both legs are now catered at once, so the flight to TLL from FRA already has to have space for the return flight, further reducing available space.
As far as the C catering goes the food is decent and bearable in C. At the NEK presentation they had all the above on display and for tasting and I recently had the olive thingie you posted on HEL-MUC. That meal is a little over the top as it seems the chef really tried to cram as much as possible into the three dishes.
One:
Two:
Three:
Four:
Five:
Six:
Overall a definite improvement in eco compared to the nothing-sandwich-pasta-big meat meal level system earlier.
We looked at the galley space during the NEK presentation in FRA and in the A320 and 319 the space has increased by one at the expense of the wardrobe. The limited space for C catering is because the larger load for the new Y catering. Also both legs are now catered at once, so the flight to TLL from FRA already has to have space for the return flight, further reducing available space.
As far as the C catering goes the food is decent and bearable in C. At the NEK presentation they had all the above on display and for tasting and I recently had the olive thingie you posted on HEL-MUC. That meal is a little over the top as it seems the chef really tried to cram as much as possible into the three dishes.
Last edited by oliver2002; Jan 5, 2011 at 7:31 am Reason: guesstimate of the Y service level
Jan 5, 2011, 6:38 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: LH FT, IB
Posts: 77
Hello to everyone, this is my first post here.
First of all, I read this forum since almost an year, and I found it quite useful, and I love the open discussions between members.
Now, going to the subject, what the OP says is really happening. For instances, I fly frequently the OPO - FRA route, and for years the passangers had an hot meal or, instead, if the flight was at 6:05 am, a cold (but full) breakfast in Economy. In the picture that Olivier kindly posted, it was the level 5 in Y (155 minutes OPO - FRA, 160 FRA - OPO).
In the 29th December, on the same flight, all we had was a sandwich, and yesterday it was a muffin! The FA were embaressed, and the purser was apologizing, because she thought that could only be a mistake. She said she had a discussion in FRA airport, when the catering was loaded, beacuse, it was not possible that a 160 minutes flight had that kind of meal.
I have written a complaint (and I was not the only one in that flight, even the purser said she would made the same) but I am not expecting anything.
So, it seems that Lufthansa it's selling a downgrade in Catering (at least, in some routes) as an Upgrade.
That plus the end of U fare makes me feel that Climb 2011 is a kind of "Iberiazation" ("Ryanairization" is another kind of matter) of the product in the intra-Europe flights.
First of all, I read this forum since almost an year, and I found it quite useful, and I love the open discussions between members.
Now, going to the subject, what the OP says is really happening. For instances, I fly frequently the OPO - FRA route, and for years the passangers had an hot meal or, instead, if the flight was at 6:05 am, a cold (but full) breakfast in Economy. In the picture that Olivier kindly posted, it was the level 5 in Y (155 minutes OPO - FRA, 160 FRA - OPO).
In the 29th December, on the same flight, all we had was a sandwich, and yesterday it was a muffin! The FA were embaressed, and the purser was apologizing, because she thought that could only be a mistake. She said she had a discussion in FRA airport, when the catering was loaded, beacuse, it was not possible that a 160 minutes flight had that kind of meal.
I have written a complaint (and I was not the only one in that flight, even the purser said she would made the same) but I am not expecting anything.
So, it seems that Lufthansa it's selling a downgrade in Catering (at least, in some routes) as an Upgrade.
That plus the end of U fare makes me feel that Climb 2011 is a kind of "Iberiazation" ("Ryanairization" is another kind of matter) of the product in the intra-Europe flights.
Jan 5, 2011, 7:01 am
#5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 926
Hello to everyone, this is my first post here.
First of all, I read this forum since almost an year, and I found it quite useful, and I love the open discussions between members.
Now, going to the subject, what the OP says is really happening. For instances, I fly frequently the OPO - FRA route, and for years the passangers had an hot meal or, instead, if the flight was at 6:05 am, a cold (but full) breakfast in Economy. In the picture that Olivier kindly posted, it was the level 5 in Y (155 minutes OPO - FRA, 160 FRA - OPO).
In the 29th December, on the same flight, all we had was a sandwich, and yesterday it was a muffin! The FA were embaressed, and the purser was apologizing, because she thought that could only be a mistake. She said she had a discussion in FRA airport, when the catering was loaded, beacuse, it was not possible that a 160 minutes flight had that kind of meal.
I have written a complaint (and I was not the only one in that flight, even the purser said she would made the same) but I am not expecting anything.
So, it seems that Lufthansa it's selling a downgrade in Catering (at least, in some routes) as an Upgrade.
That plus the end of U fare makes me feel that Climb 2011 is a kind of "Iberiazation" ("Ryanairization" is another kind of matter) of the product in the intra-Europe flights.
First of all, I read this forum since almost an year, and I found it quite useful, and I love the open discussions between members.
Now, going to the subject, what the OP says is really happening. For instances, I fly frequently the OPO - FRA route, and for years the passangers had an hot meal or, instead, if the flight was at 6:05 am, a cold (but full) breakfast in Economy. In the picture that Olivier kindly posted, it was the level 5 in Y (155 minutes OPO - FRA, 160 FRA - OPO).
In the 29th December, on the same flight, all we had was a sandwich, and yesterday it was a muffin! The FA were embaressed, and the purser was apologizing, because she thought that could only be a mistake. She said she had a discussion in FRA airport, when the catering was loaded, beacuse, it was not possible that a 160 minutes flight had that kind of meal.
I have written a complaint (and I was not the only one in that flight, even the purser said she would made the same) but I am not expecting anything.
So, it seems that Lufthansa it's selling a downgrade in Catering (at least, in some routes) as an Upgrade.
That plus the end of U fare makes me feel that Climb 2011 is a kind of "Iberiazation" ("Ryanairization" is another kind of matter) of the product in the intra-Europe flights.
The offerings for J look rather cheap. They also seem to think that J pax will not notice what 'Climb 2011' actually means for J Catering.
Jan 5, 2011, 7:12 am
#7
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, SQ PPS Solitaire
Posts: 3,629
The food offerings in J are pathetic - and I think that is (unfortunately) true for both European and international flights. Food is more than drinks the 'business card' for an airline - and the cost cutting here undermines the 'premium' brand value a lot. I think it's one of the wrong measures and LH should fix this.
Jan 5, 2011, 7:15 am
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CH, D, USA
Posts: 1,729
Oliver, thanks for posting those pics. Could you put kindly also put headings between the pics in your second post to show which economy service levels get which kind of food? I think some salads and wraps are in the same service level.
I also politely but strongly disagree on the subject regarding your impression of an overall improvement. Perhaps if I had attended a presentation I would feel differently (or likewise been sold
..) on a an improvement. But I really see a downgrade for many flights. (And an improvement only for domestic Y!)
If the catering space is in fact bigger or same, then they really don't have a space problem but are implementing an overall cost savings programme. They COULD still have small trays in Eco on the downgraded flights and larger, or at least fully-filled trays in business.
They really should keep those flights on the same comparable service levels. Or else those routes will loose some traffic, at least from me.
I think we should compile a list of flights with "downgraded catering", and from what old level it moved to which new level. And of course upgraded ones as well.
So far we have:
FRA-TLL-FRA in Y - was a tray is now a hand-out snack (now level 3, before probably level 5 of 6 levels)
FRA-TLL-FRA in C - was a large tray and full meal and is now a warm snack (now level 3, before probably level 5 of 6 levels)
MUC-TLL-MUC in Y and C - same downgrade as FRA
Helsinki - .... also same downgrade in Y and C?
OPO ... downgraded even further?
I also politely but strongly disagree on the subject regarding your impression of an overall improvement. Perhaps if I had attended a presentation I would feel differently (or likewise been sold
..) on a an improvement. But I really see a downgrade for many flights. (And an improvement only for domestic Y!)If the catering space is in fact bigger or same, then they really don't have a space problem but are implementing an overall cost savings programme. They COULD still have small trays in Eco on the downgraded flights and larger, or at least fully-filled trays in business.
They really should keep those flights on the same comparable service levels. Or else those routes will loose some traffic, at least from me.
I think we should compile a list of flights with "downgraded catering", and from what old level it moved to which new level. And of course upgraded ones as well.
So far we have:
FRA-TLL-FRA in Y - was a tray is now a hand-out snack (now level 3, before probably level 5 of 6 levels)
FRA-TLL-FRA in C - was a large tray and full meal and is now a warm snack (now level 3, before probably level 5 of 6 levels)
MUC-TLL-MUC in Y and C - same downgrade as FRA
Helsinki - .... also same downgrade in Y and C?
OPO ... downgraded even further?
Jan 5, 2011, 7:20 am
#10
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: LH FT, IB
Posts: 77
Thank you both.
In fact, Olivier, it was a big muffin, so I believe the OPO - FRA route was downgraded to level 4. Still, it's quite less than the small tray I was used to (2 breads, butter, jam, orange juice, a cold dish). And the flight time points to a level 5 catering, I believe (and also the purser, she told me that it should be an hot meal).
Honestly, I have no problem in paying 20€ more in the ticket to have a better catering, and, for what I've heard in the plain, some travellers do think the same.
In fact, Olivier, it was a big muffin, so I believe the OPO - FRA route was downgraded to level 4. Still, it's quite less than the small tray I was used to (2 breads, butter, jam, orange juice, a cold dish). And the flight time points to a level 5 catering, I believe (and also the purser, she told me that it should be an hot meal).
Honestly, I have no problem in paying 20€ more in the ticket to have a better catering, and, for what I've heard in the plain, some travellers do think the same.
Jan 5, 2011, 7:34 am
#11
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: LH FT, IB
Posts: 77
Jan 5, 2011, 7:48 am
#12
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,293
Oliver, thanks for posting those pics. Could you put kindly also put headings between the pics in your second post to show which economy service levels get which kind of food? I think some salads and wraps are in the same service level.
I also politely but strongly disagree on the subject regarding your impression of an overall improvement. Perhaps if I had attended a presentation I would feel differently (or likewise been sold ..) on a an improvement. But I really see a downgrade for many flights. (And an improvement only for domestic Y!)
I also politely but strongly disagree on the subject regarding your impression of an overall improvement. Perhaps if I had attended a presentation I would feel differently (or likewise been sold
..) on a an improvement. But I really see a downgrade for many flights. (And an improvement only for domestic Y!)As far as the being 'sold' is concerned: we (rcs8551, ralfkrippner & I) gave the guy a hard time that the infamous 'competitive' pasta dish was eliminated on the spanish and northeastern routes for example. The presentation was on the 15th, the concept was implement on the 9th, so we had some lead on what to look for. They insisted catering in Y was coming back on all routes (I personally saw ARN-MUC go from warm food in Y & C down to cold snack in C and sandwich in Y over 6 years) but that some routes that had better catering due competitive reasons may suffer, inlcuding spain and baltics.
The beverages stay the same as far as the info was given out. LH has the problem that they launched the new catering on 09EC but didn't have the time to train and inform all FAs on the new food. They only see whats loaded or have to inform themselves in the CRA.
The service levels are called 'SST' or Modul A-F so feel free to ask the Purser what service level your flight has to file a proper complaint
Jan 5, 2011, 10:45 am
#13
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: LH FT, IB
Posts: 77
I don't have my notes and the press folder with, so I corrected the post with what I guess to be the levels.
As far as the being 'sold' is concerned: we (rcs8551, ralfkrippner & I) gave the guy a hard time that the infamous 'competitive' pasta dish was eliminated on the spanish and northeastern routes for example. The presentation was on the 15th, the concept was implement on the 9th, so we had some lead on what to look for. They insisted catering in Y was coming back on all routes (I personally saw ARN-MUC go from warm food in Y & C down to cold snack in C and sandwich in Y over 6 years) but that some routes that had better catering due competitive reasons may suffer, inlcuding spain and baltics.
The beverages stay the same as far as the info was given out. LH has the problem that they launched the new catering on 09EC but didn't have the time to train and inform all FAs on the new food. They only see whats loaded or have to inform themselves in the CRA.
The service levels are called 'SST' or Modul A-F so feel free to ask the Purser what service level your flight has to file a proper complaint
As far as the being 'sold' is concerned: we (rcs8551, ralfkrippner & I) gave the guy a hard time that the infamous 'competitive' pasta dish was eliminated on the spanish and northeastern routes for example. The presentation was on the 15th, the concept was implement on the 9th, so we had some lead on what to look for. They insisted catering in Y was coming back on all routes (I personally saw ARN-MUC go from warm food in Y & C down to cold snack in C and sandwich in Y over 6 years) but that some routes that had better catering due competitive reasons may suffer, inlcuding spain and baltics.
The beverages stay the same as far as the info was given out. LH has the problem that they launched the new catering on 09EC but didn't have the time to train and inform all FAs on the new food. They only see whats loaded or have to inform themselves in the CRA.
The service levels are called 'SST' or Modul A-F so feel free to ask the Purser what service level your flight has to file a proper complaint
In fact, Lufthansa would have made a much smarter move if improving the catering in some routes (domestic, for instances, and in C class), and keep others as they were. For sure that the cost of that would be very small if compared with the better image they'd get instead of letting a lot of people thinking that there is no reason in paying more to fly Lufthansa, and, worse, that they were fooled.
Next week I will fly OPO - FRA again, and, as it is lunch time, for sure the "improved" catering will be a sandwich instead of the pasta or meat or chicken dish. For me, it will be time to complaint. Again.
So, for now, LH has downgraded:
FRA-TLL-FRA (Y and C)
MUC-TLL-MUC
FRA-HEL-FRA
OPO-FRA-OPO
What else?
Jan 5, 2011, 3:00 pm
#14
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,293
By competition I meant that under the old concept if the rival on that route offered a free hot meal in Y, LH offered it for competitive reasons. That was the reason why under the old concept HEL still got the 'competitive' pasta in Y and hot meal in C while ARN got a sandwich in Y and cold plate in C. Only because to HEL AY offered a meal for free, but to ARN, SK and DY charged for anything inflight, including a cup of water.
The same applies to routes like ATH, PMI, AGP, IST, MOW etc: all around 120-150 min, but they either got nothing or hot meals. LH is updating the situation with this change and some routes are being bought back to the original service level.
If you complain hard and loud, maybe they will realise they error and go back to offer something more extensive.
The same applies to routes like ATH, PMI, AGP, IST, MOW etc: all around 120-150 min, but they either got nothing or hot meals.
LH is updating the situation with this change and some routes are being bought back to the original service level.If you complain hard and loud, maybe they will realise they error and go back to offer something more extensive.
Jan 5, 2011, 3:02 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CH, D, USA
Posts: 1,729
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9700/5.0.0.656 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/130)
"As far as the being 'sold' is concerned: we (rcs8551, ralfkrippner & I) gave the guy a hard time that the infamous 'competitive' pasta dish was eliminated on the spanish and northeastern routes"
Glad to hear that, Oliver. Everything else would have surprised me ... :-)
"As far as the being 'sold' is concerned: we (rcs8551, ralfkrippner & I) gave the guy a hard time that the infamous 'competitive' pasta dish was eliminated on the spanish and northeastern routes"
Glad to hear that, Oliver. Everything else would have surprised me ... :-)