Wal-Mart, Amex take on banks with Bluebird debit card
Dec 4, 2012, 12:46 am
#3586
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 159
from everything I have read using a debit card at Walmart, the transaction simply shows up as "Walmart". That's why you take the extra step of loading via debit card. Don't always load up even numbers. It's free to do, be creative.
Dec 4, 2012, 12:48 am
#3587
Join Date: May 2003
Location: CA
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 2,879
You are missing the COST of buying those 30K HH points. 30K HH points are worth, on average, $150.00. But you have to pay the $3.95 load charge for every $500 you load to your BB. To load $5,000, you pay $3.95 x 10 = $39.50. So your $150 worth of HH points (30K) costs $39.50. You net $110.50 (not considering your time and fuel costs).
As you can see, the key is the multiple points per dollar that you get. If you only received 1 point per dollar, even on an SPG card, you would be paying just under one cent per point. This swings the economics from very positive to "slightly" positive.
Of course I am ignoring the possibility of buying a Prepaid card at OD on an Ink card and then buying the VR with the PP card because that opportunity seems to be very remote.
However, all that goes out the window IF you are trying to reach a minimum spend. Then almost anything becomes very positive.
Last edited by deant; Dec 4, 2012 at 1:31 am
Dec 4, 2012, 3:39 am
#3588
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,708
I have already heard that PayPal is not happy about this; the points guy was warned. He was not specifically transferring to Bluebird, but I don't see why PayPal would be any happier about Bluebird than a checking account.
I am not sure what PayPal's actual problem with this scenario is, but my guess is that it looks like money laundering or possibly terrorist financing.
I am not sure what PayPal's actual problem with this scenario is, but my guess is that it looks like money laundering or possibly terrorist financing.
Dec 4, 2012, 6:08 am
#3589
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MGM
Programs: United Silver, PC Plat/Amb, HH Dmnd
Posts: 805
DCBob has a point about whether the VR game is objectively "worth" it. By the hard numbers, I'm increasing my cash income by ~$150 per month by spending a couple or three hours hunting for beans. A pretty good return, but the numbers don't tell the whole story. I enjoy the game as well. As hobbies go, amassing miles and points is a pretty good one.
Andyandy
Andyandy
Dec 4, 2012, 6:16 am
#3590
Formerly known as cagalindo
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: MCO TPA
Programs: Citi AA/HH/TYP Amex SPG/HH & Chase SP/PC
Posts: 1,335
The way I look at is that if you use a Surpass card at CVS to buy the VR card, you get 3,000 miles for buying a $500 card (6 points per dollar). Even if you do not assume any VIP / AXON discount, a top tier Hilton (not W.A.) is 50K per night. So to get the 50K I would need to buy approximately 17 reloads. This makes the total cost approximately $67 for a 1 night stay at a cat 6 or 7. Now if you stay 4 nights and use a VIP or AXON rate, it takes the cost per night down significantly (4 nights on an AXON is 145K points, or 48 reloads or less than $50 per night). Not a bad deal.
Dec 4, 2012, 6:37 am
#3591
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: LAX
Posts: 2,851
Why go through paypal at all when you can purchase VR with CC and then load onto BB?
this is a very roundabout way of loading up your Bluebird account, but here goes.
i've only done half of this transaction but don't expect much hiccup on the other half.
requirements:
Paypal account
Paypal debit card
Bluebird account
Scheme:
CVS #1 - did not take credit card for Vanilla reloads. Did not try Paypal reloads.
CVS #2 - Success in buying Paypal reload with CC. They did not have Vanilla reloads for me to try.
CVS #3 - Same story as CVS #2
Paypal reload has a $3.95 fee, same as Vanilla reload. Did not try Moneypak reload since that carries a $4.95 fee and some report not available for CC purchases.
After purchase, you load the card on to your Paypal account ($500 limit/day, $4000/month). I will test tonight to see if it is per 24 hrs or per calendar day. EDIT: Tested and it is $500 limit per calendar day.
Obtain a Paypal debit card (yes, you will have to give up your SSN to Paypal). Hopefully get "approved" for the card (do not know if there is a hard or soft pull, but Paypal claims if will not effect your credit score). Take your debit card and load your BB account.
I am only doing this to meet minimum spend requirements and until I can try CC purchases of Vanilla reloads at these CVS's.
So this scheme involves the same amount of fees as VR, but does require a middle man that may or may not be happy this is taking place. Only time will tell.
i've only done half of this transaction but don't expect much hiccup on the other half.
requirements:
Paypal account
Paypal debit card
Bluebird account
Scheme:
CVS #1 - did not take credit card for Vanilla reloads. Did not try Paypal reloads.
CVS #2 - Success in buying Paypal reload with CC. They did not have Vanilla reloads for me to try.
CVS #3 - Same story as CVS #2
Paypal reload has a $3.95 fee, same as Vanilla reload. Did not try Moneypak reload since that carries a $4.95 fee and some report not available for CC purchases.
After purchase, you load the card on to your Paypal account ($500 limit/day, $4000/month). I will test tonight to see if it is per 24 hrs or per calendar day. EDIT: Tested and it is $500 limit per calendar day.
Obtain a Paypal debit card (yes, you will have to give up your SSN to Paypal). Hopefully get "approved" for the card (do not know if there is a hard or soft pull, but Paypal claims if will not effect your credit score). Take your debit card and load your BB account.
I am only doing this to meet minimum spend requirements and until I can try CC purchases of Vanilla reloads at these CVS's.
So this scheme involves the same amount of fees as VR, but does require a middle man that may or may not be happy this is taking place. Only time will tell.
Dec 4, 2012, 7:49 am
#3592
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,422
I'm just wondering if anyone has taken the time to analyze the $ savings from buying VR cards with a rewards CC vs. the cost of gasoline, depreciation, or bus/subway fares per trip and the value of your limited amount of time on earth to do this.
For example, say I use the Amex HH card at CVS and get 6 HH points per dollar and purchase $1,000 in VR cards on one trip (any more and you could be asking for trouble). I net $0.005 x 6 x 1000 = $ 30.00 minus the $3.95 reload fee x 2 = $22.10. Maximum net value to me per month = 5 x $22.10 = $ 110.50.
For example, say I use the Amex HH card at CVS and get 6 HH points per dollar and purchase $1,000 in VR cards on one trip (any more and you could be asking for trouble). I net $0.005 x 6 x 1000 = $ 30.00 minus the $3.95 reload fee x 2 = $22.10. Maximum net value to me per month = 5 x $22.10 = $ 110.50.
That said, I bought some VRs at CVS to help meet the nasty $5000 minimum spend on a new SPG card. Now that I've met that, it doesn't really seem worth my time to pop by a CVS just to earn a few more SPG points. If I was saving up for a particular redemption in SPG or HHonors, though, my analysis would be different.
Dec 4, 2012, 8:08 am
#3593
Suspended
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 613
Earlier in this thread, I voiced my opinion that you were still better off using a SPG card at CVS even without the category bonus. HHonors awards are just too expensive, and SPG's cash & points is particularly lucrative. I suppose it all depends on your travel habits, though.
That said, I bought some VRs at CVS to help meet the nasty $5000 minimum spend on a new SPG card. Now that I've met that, it doesn't really seem worth my time to pop by a CVS just to earn a few more SPG points. If I was saving up for a particular redemption in SPG or HHonors, though, my analysis would be different.
That said, I bought some VRs at CVS to help meet the nasty $5000 minimum spend on a new SPG card. Now that I've met that, it doesn't really seem worth my time to pop by a CVS just to earn a few more SPG points. If I was saving up for a particular redemption in SPG or HHonors, though, my analysis would be different.
some of these cashiers act as if we personally cheated them or as if they personally own the store. My wife was like what's with the angry look, its not their personal store or its not that they themselves have to pay the 3% CC fee.
Dec 4, 2012, 8:47 am
#3594
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Programs: Hyatt Explorist, HH Gold, SPG Gold, National EC Executive, AA Platinum
Posts: 606
My new HHonors AmEx card states in the T&Cs that purchases of "reloading of prepaid cards" or "cash equivalents" are NOT eligible purchases and will not earn points. I guess that kicks me out of the bb game. 
Dec 4, 2012, 9:21 am
#3597
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: IAH
Posts: 418
Damn I can't believe you guys are gonna let those reloads sit around for anything but a few days... some thief can be running a random number generator every few days.. there aren't even that many possible combinations. If they catch one of your loaded ones then you'll have a big headache to deal with. The VR site doesn't even use captcha!
Dec 4, 2012, 9:28 am
#3598
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,431
DCBob has a point about whether the VR game is objectively "worth" it. By the hard numbers, I'm increasing my cash income by ~$150 per month by spending a couple or three hours hunting for beans. A pretty good return, but the numbers don't tell the whole story. I enjoy the game as well. As hobbies go, amassing miles and points is a pretty good one.
Dec 4, 2012, 9:36 am
#3599
Suspended
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,998
People often talk about the 'value' of their time. Unless you're forgoing the opportunity to actually work and get paid for it, you're time is worth $0. I get paid a fixed salary and I'm not going to take a 2nd job, so the time I spend outside of work playing this game is essentialy worth nothing (in fiscal terms). Everything I "earn" while doing this becomes the monitary value of that time.
Dec 4, 2012, 9:38 am
#3600
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,431
Every VR I've had started with the same first number. That makes it 1,000,000,000 combinations. Still a lot, but the way I see it, if a number generator can go through 4 numbers/second, it would take ~3000 days to go through all the possibilities. The likelihood of someone getting your PIN is very low, but if you hold onto your VR for a whole month, then an online thief has 1% chance of stealing your $500. If there are 10 people out there doing this, it can get scary.