Rangers4me

I am considering staying at Gora Kadan for a night on my trip to Japan. Is it worth the expense? I've also heard good things about Suishoen.

http://www.suisyou.com/en/

-Jason

RTW1

Value for money is a rather personal thing..... when visiting Japan a night at a ryokan is a nice experience though.

jib71

Hakone is one of the pricier places in the country.
IMHO you get more bang for your buck if you go further from the beaten path. YMMV.

evergrn

I disagree that Hakone is any more expensive than other places in terms of hotel prices. We go to onsens all over Kanto/Shinshu/Joetsu region and I find that places like Isawa Onsen and Yuzawa are no cheaper when comparing apples to apples in terms of hotel tier/amenities. It's just that Hakone has more high-end hotels/ryokans than a lot of other onsen areas. But there are also plenty of places in Hakone that are reasonably priced. Some of the best onsen ryokans in Japan are in off-the-beaten-path places (ex: www.keiunkan.co.jp), but they're also very expensive.

In Gora, I'd also suggest looking up Gora Hanaougi... very nice place, but not cheap (although should be cheaper than Gora Kadan). I've never stayed at Gora Kadan even though I see Gora Kadan get brought up again and again on FT.

jib71

Eh. What can I say? That's not how I see things.

Isawa Onsen is a place that I'd never visit if I had the choice. In that sense, I suppose it's true that I'd get more satisfaction per dollar in Hakone than in Isawa. In general, though, I've found that the further I get from the madding crowd the better the onsen I can afford.

evergrn

Thing about Isawa Onsen is that, yes it's a flat, non-descript, residential type of setting. But once you check in, people generally stay within the ryokan until check-out. So what makes or breaks for me is the ryokan itself, although the surrounding is not completely unimportant. And there's a few really good places in Isawa. There's a range of ryokans in terms of quality. There's even variation in the quality of onsen water from one place to another. Keizan is my favorite. Great views of Southern Alps if your room is on the right side. Good dinner, fabulous breakfast buffet, nice onsen, nice room, real konbini in the lobby. But, for me, the ultimate onsens are up in central Alps.

mt-i

I'd second that. I've stayed at more or less expensive ryokan (though admittedly never in the price range of Gora Kadan), and my most memorable onsen experiences have tended to be at more affordable properties pretty far afield. In general, places in remote areas that still manage to score high marks and many votes on sites like Jalan or JTB seem to be pretty reliably good.

For example, I have fond memories of a stay at Shisen in Aizu (Yunokami onsen), which is a modest family-run minshuku, but still offers large, comfy rooms, nice jizake and local mountain cuisine, a kakenagashi rotenburo, and really warm service (the wakaokami would tell you everything you wanted to hear about the calligraphies on the wall, the story of the place and so on). The area is fantastic in the season of automn leaves.

Goshoranba near Izumo (Tachikue-kyo onsen) was also a great experience (incredible views from the rooms and the baths, surprising hiking trails at the doorstep, a very filling dinner, etc.) all for the price of a business hotel.

Clearly, though, neither of those is like the traditional Japanese version of a Four Seasons night. For that, and the feeling of splurging at bubble-era rates, Gora Kadan might be a good choice.

jib71

I defy you to find a more hideous "non-descript residential type of setting". It's non-descript residential with ugly-as-crap bubble era hotel towers and low rent slums for the imported sex-workers ... Isawa is the arsehole of Yamanashi.

jpatokal

Kinugawa Onsen. You're welcome.

jib71

You win.

One difference, I think, is that Kinugawa was an area of beauty before being disfigured by onsen development. Isawa, by contrast, was just dull farmland until some farmer noticed that his ankles weren't cold after a day in the paddies. Another difference is that Kinugawa has been the victim of a more violent boom and bust. So what? So nothing, I suppose.

emma69

I am also trying to find a ryokan in Hakone - I looked at Gora Kadan and a few others, and I can't justify $1100 + per night to myself. I am trying to find something more 'mid range' (say around $600-700 ish) but am being bewildered by so many different options, some of which seem to have very little information on the room, facilities etc.

evergrn

@emma69:
You should look up Gora Hanaougi and Hakone Ginyu. They're still high-end and very nice, but they should be <<$1100 per night. If it doesn't have to be high-end, there should be decent places for ~$300 total for 2 adults inc 2 meals. Do keep in mind that there can be quite a bit of price difference btwn Fri&Sat nights and all the other nights. If you can, stay sometime during Sun-Thu.

Those are pretty harsh words, but you're entitled to your opinion. We have a lot of family friends in that area. The word "hideous" would hardly come to mind with Isawa. Non-descript? Yes. Anyways, I'm not saying it's a great onsen town or anything, although I have enjoyed my onsen stays there. Onsen and a bowl of houtou go well together. My point was that, when comparing equal caliber lodging, Hakone is generally not much different than places like Isawa in terms of room package rates.

Good call on Kinugawa, jpatokal. You look out the window from the hotel and you see abandoned buildings (presumably ex-hotels) on the river cliff, which is eery. The whole place just feels a bit decrepit. But the main problem I have is that, at every hotel I've stayed at in Kinugawa, the onsen just feels quite watered-down.

jib71

You're not really trying if the best description you can offer is "non-descript". It brings to mind the aphorism "I'm like any other man, only more so."

Fortunately, anyone with access to Google Street View can see exactly what Isawa looks like.

emma69

Thanks. Gora Hanaougi is coming in at around $900 a night (it is a Saturday unfortunately, to fit in with the rest of the schedule). Hakone Ginyu is showing as sold out for the night we are looking at.

Any suggestions for some that might come in at the $300-400 mark?

evergrn

I don't know how you're checking your prices and which Saturday you're staying on. Onsen resorts on Saturdays are generally tough price-wise. Anyways, using Sat 10/18, I've just had a quick look.

I get 77,800y total including two adults, dinner+breakf at Gora Hanaougi.

Some of the other places... I've just had a quick look, so by no means is this a comprehensive list. These are all places with at least decent onsen, and it's priced for 2 adults with dinner+breakf.

Gora:
Gora Kansuirou (40,000y) - old shinise ryokan
Gora Hanougi Souunkan (46,300y) - don't know much about this place, but looks like a place worth looking into

Sengokuhara:
Hotel Green Plaza (40,700y) - dinner here is nothing special (French or kaiseki at their restaurant); room nothing special either but, on a clear day, you have a great view of Mt.Fuji from the outdoor onsen.
Auberge Ren (50,600y) - French-influenced, so no tatami room here or kaiseki dinner.

Yumoto:
Hotel Okuyumoto (43500y) - very nice onsen area, room okay but a bit dated; you should consider this place.
Tenseien (33600y) - large hotel with regular western-style room/beds, but nice onsens; both dinner & breakf are buffet-style which may work to your favour

I should mention that I've actually stayed at only some of the places above, although they've all been on my list (except Hanaougi Souunkan, which I don't know much about... I just put that on there due to good reviews and good onsen profile)