Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]
Jun 22, 2011, 7:14 pm
#1486
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SNA
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum
Posts: 529
). May I ask you - did the TSO also give your hand the EDT test? And/or were any of your carryon items tested?
Jun 24, 2011, 4:49 pm
#1487
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Between EWR & PHL
Programs: UA MileagePlus dirt (former hard-way Silver); AS Mileage Plan MVP; Hilton Honors Silver
Posts: 1,586
Almost had to opt-out at BNA a couple of hours ago. MMWs used as primary in all lanes, so SDOO not an option. One thing I did notice was that, at least in the diamond lane, all men were being shepherded thru the NOS, but children and many women were being allowed to use the WTMD without a scan. (The TSOs manning the lane were both women.) I was all set to utter the magic words, but the TSO directing traffic at the mouth of the scanner/WTMD pulled the rope to block the NOS just as I was placing my laptop & bin into the xray tunnel.
Jun 25, 2011, 1:23 am
#1488
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SNA
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum
Posts: 529
Clearly not ALL patdowns are like what I had at LAX.
Jun 25, 2011, 1:35 am
#1489
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: AA Plat/1MM
Posts: 546
FLL, Terminal 2 (Delta), June 21, 5:15 am: Directed to NoS and opted out. Male assist arrived quickly. Pleasant enough. Gave me the usual spiel. I objected to the word "resistance," telling him repeatedly (while he kept repeating his canned speech) that I had no intention of resisting him because that would be "interfering with the screening process." I asked him several times, "Do you mean my testicles?" At long last, after 5 or so minutes of debate in front of two supervisors and a very nice screening manager, the clerk admitted that he would be touching my testicles. At that point, I told him to go ahead.
Afterward, I had a long conversation with the screening manager about the absurdity of the word "resistance." He seemed to agree, without explicitly saying so, but said that they just read a script that comes from headquarters, and they have no power to deviate from that script. After another 5 minutes or so, I headed to the Sky Club.
Bruce
Afterward, I had a long conversation with the screening manager about the absurdity of the word "resistance." He seemed to agree, without explicitly saying so, but said that they just read a script that comes from headquarters, and they have no power to deviate from that script. After another 5 minutes or so, I headed to the Sky Club.
Bruce
Jun 25, 2011, 6:46 pm
#1490
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC & Delhi
Programs: CO Pres. Plat, SPG
Posts: 546
I've now been through the scanners and a couple of opt-outs at RDU.
I am now 100% convinced I could carry a weapon on my body undetected, through either the scanner or the pat-down process.
The RDU TSA office is in the same building as the office I visit when in RDU. Should I drop in and offer to show them a weakness with their security during my next visit? Surely they have a demo checkpoint set up at the office.
The other option, coming through the checkpoint with a simulated weapon on my person, going through the process and then demanding a supervisor come watch as I retrieve the weapon they missed once I am cleared, seems somewhat ill-advised. Would make for great video, though.
I am now 100% convinced I could carry a weapon on my body undetected, through either the scanner or the pat-down process.
The RDU TSA office is in the same building as the office I visit when in RDU. Should I drop in and offer to show them a weakness with their security during my next visit? Surely they have a demo checkpoint set up at the office.
The other option, coming through the checkpoint with a simulated weapon on my person, going through the process and then demanding a supervisor come watch as I retrieve the weapon they missed once I am cleared, seems somewhat ill-advised. Would make for great video, though.
Jun 25, 2011, 7:08 pm
#1491
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BOS
Programs: DL PM, Hertz Gold Plus, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,049
Got another Freedom Grope today at BOS, Terminal A (right entry).
NoS was primary, so I opted out.
I think the hands in the hair/fingers in the waistband method has become SOP. It has consistently been performed during my last few pat downs.
The only problem I had was that while I was waiting for a female assist (which took a good 5 minutes, even though there were plenty of female screeners at the checkpoint
), I lost sight of my belongings on the belt. I said, "Ma'am, I cannot see my belongings" to the screener once and was ignored, but when I said it again (more loudly), she allowed me to go through the metal detector and stand in the sterile area where I could see my things until they found someone to grope me (oddly enough, it was the very same screener).
I was really tempted to ask her to clarify "resistance" while she was explaining the procedure, but I was going through security at 7:30 a.m. for an 8:00 flight and didn't want to push my luck.
NoS was primary, so I opted out.
I think the hands in the hair/fingers in the waistband method has become SOP. It has consistently been performed during my last few pat downs.
The only problem I had was that while I was waiting for a female assist (which took a good 5 minutes, even though there were plenty of female screeners at the checkpoint
), I lost sight of my belongings on the belt. I said, "Ma'am, I cannot see my belongings" to the screener once and was ignored, but when I said it again (more loudly), she allowed me to go through the metal detector and stand in the sterile area where I could see my things until they found someone to grope me (oddly enough, it was the very same screener).I was really tempted to ask her to clarify "resistance" while she was explaining the procedure, but I was going through security at 7:30 a.m. for an 8:00 flight and didn't want to push my luck.
Jun 27, 2011, 11:39 pm
#1492
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 156
Today I was threatened with physical violence by a 3 striper.
In ATL, I'm normally able to self select, but was unable to today. I got 1 striper who had patted me down once before and I remember him because he is very slow and tentative, having to ask a supervisor about regulations. Normal pat down until he gets to my legs, which he tells me to spread them shoulder width apart. I respond that they are, no one else has had a problem with my many pat downs in the past. Tentative agent stops the pat down.
Here comes 3 striper big shot. He makes me sit down to listen to what he is going to touch, I'm not paying attention to him and miss him asking if I want a private screening. He says his question wasn't rhetorical and I responded that I missed his question and asked what it was. He then said I should have listened and repeated the whole thing over again. Pat down starts all over and finishes.
After pat down I mention that he needs to talk to the 1 striper and get his issues worked out as he always has to call a supervisor for things he should know how to handle. He responds saying he is a good agent, TSA babble, etc. He then comes back to say some more stuff and I've had enough at this point.
I told him to please step back as his breathe spelled extremely bad. His breathe was so bad that I could smell it 2 feet away. He says that's original and some other stuff, I respond sorry but it is the truth. He then comes back over to me and says that he gets off at 1PM and I should come back then to finish it.
I notified the LEO and Terminal Supervisor or Director (whatever his title is). Another 1 striper was within ear shot, but of course deigned hearing anything. Another passenger heard it, but didn't want to get involved. The 3 striper deigned saying it, but the (Suit)Supervisor said he has had a previous history of complaints and normally doesn't work that terminal. He is supposed to be following up with the 3 striper's normal supervisor. Most likely it will just be more "training".
If had time, I probably would have pushed just get a police report on him, but I just made it to the gate before they shut the door.
In ATL, I'm normally able to self select, but was unable to today. I got 1 striper who had patted me down once before and I remember him because he is very slow and tentative, having to ask a supervisor about regulations. Normal pat down until he gets to my legs, which he tells me to spread them shoulder width apart. I respond that they are, no one else has had a problem with my many pat downs in the past. Tentative agent stops the pat down.
Here comes 3 striper big shot. He makes me sit down to listen to what he is going to touch, I'm not paying attention to him and miss him asking if I want a private screening. He says his question wasn't rhetorical and I responded that I missed his question and asked what it was. He then said I should have listened and repeated the whole thing over again. Pat down starts all over and finishes.
After pat down I mention that he needs to talk to the 1 striper and get his issues worked out as he always has to call a supervisor for things he should know how to handle. He responds saying he is a good agent, TSA babble, etc. He then comes back to say some more stuff and I've had enough at this point.
I told him to please step back as his breathe spelled extremely bad. His breathe was so bad that I could smell it 2 feet away. He says that's original and some other stuff, I respond sorry but it is the truth. He then comes back over to me and says that he gets off at 1PM and I should come back then to finish it.
I notified the LEO and Terminal Supervisor or Director (whatever his title is). Another 1 striper was within ear shot, but of course deigned hearing anything. Another passenger heard it, but didn't want to get involved. The 3 striper deigned saying it, but the (Suit)Supervisor said he has had a previous history of complaints and normally doesn't work that terminal. He is supposed to be following up with the 3 striper's normal supervisor. Most likely it will just be more "training".
If had time, I probably would have pushed just get a police report on him, but I just made it to the gate before they shut the door.
Jun 28, 2011, 11:39 am
#1493
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Programs: AA 2MM - UA 1P / Hyatt Diamond - SPG Plat / Hertz 5* - Avis 1st
Posts: 3,886
This morning I had an interesting addition to the Freedom Grope at PHX Sky Harbor Terminal 4 A-Gates entrance.
The barker happened to be standing close to me when I rejected the Nudoscope, and she followed me over to the shake-down area. Interestingly, the Freedom Grope required five people to complete - me, the barker, the groper, and two baggage handlers to move my shoes, belt, bag, computer, and jacket.
Once the groper started in, she told him to check my wrists. He fixated on my wrists, and eventually asked me to unbutton my sleeves so he could give them a good feel.
Eventually the grope ended and everybody disappeared, but this was the first time I have had to undo my shirtsleeve buttons. The barker had lost interest once the groper finished with my arms, so I didn't get a chance to ask why. The baggage handlers just sort of stood there slackjawed and watched the whole time.
The barker happened to be standing close to me when I rejected the Nudoscope, and she followed me over to the shake-down area. Interestingly, the Freedom Grope required five people to complete - me, the barker, the groper, and two baggage handlers to move my shoes, belt, bag, computer, and jacket.
Once the groper started in, she told him to check my wrists. He fixated on my wrists, and eventually asked me to unbutton my sleeves so he could give them a good feel.
Eventually the grope ended and everybody disappeared, but this was the first time I have had to undo my shirtsleeve buttons. The barker had lost interest once the groper finished with my arms, so I didn't get a chance to ask why. The baggage handlers just sort of stood there slackjawed and watched the whole time.
Jun 28, 2011, 6:48 pm
#1494
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
This morning I had an interesting addition to the Freedom Grope at PHX Sky Harbor Terminal 4 A-Gates entrance.
The barker happened to be standing close to me when I rejected the Nudoscope, and she followed me over to the shake-down area. Interestingly, the Freedom Grope required five people to complete - me, the barker, the groper, and two baggage handlers to move my shoes, belt, bag, computer, and jacket.
Once the groper started in, she told him to check my wrists. He fixated on my wrists, and eventually asked me to unbutton my sleeves so he could give them a good feel.
Eventually the grope ended and everybody disappeared, but this was the first time I have had to undo my shirtsleeve buttons. The barker had lost interest once the groper finished with my arms, so I didn't get a chance to ask why. The baggage handlers just sort of stood there slackjawed and watched the whole time.
The barker happened to be standing close to me when I rejected the Nudoscope, and she followed me over to the shake-down area. Interestingly, the Freedom Grope required five people to complete - me, the barker, the groper, and two baggage handlers to move my shoes, belt, bag, computer, and jacket.
Once the groper started in, she told him to check my wrists. He fixated on my wrists, and eventually asked me to unbutton my sleeves so he could give them a good feel.
Eventually the grope ended and everybody disappeared, but this was the first time I have had to undo my shirtsleeve buttons. The barker had lost interest once the groper finished with my arms, so I didn't get a chance to ask why. The baggage handlers just sort of stood there slackjawed and watched the whole time.
Jun 28, 2011, 9:11 pm
#1495
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
As a side note, I ended my conversation with the supervisor saying "yes sir, no sir, etc." I heard one of the agents standing nearby say something like "Oh, now it's sir" to her coworker. Not bright enough to pick up on the sarcasm, I guess they thought I was just suddenly in awe over the power of a TSA supervisor.
Jun 29, 2011, 1:41 am
#1496
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: AA 1MM
Posts: 3,182
Well, whether they touch your testicles or not really depends on which part of the "package" hangs lower (could conceivably vary day to day, depending on temperature, I suppose). They are required to meet resistance and there are two (well, three) potential sources of resistance so it really depends.
Jun 29, 2011, 6:06 am
#1497
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
Programs: Former UA 1P
Posts: 3,725
DAY, 6/28/2011, 6 a.m. Only one lane open, and 100% MMW. Had a little chain blocking off the WTMD.
I opt out when motioned into the MMW. Female screener says OK, and walks through gate next to the MMW. I try to follow her, and she gets snippy and says "you can't go through there, you have to go through the WTMD." I think she was hoping for an alarm, but whatever. She moves the chain blocking the WTMD and I go through. No alarm. Then she tried to make me stand right by the WTMD well out of sight of my stuff. I say "I need to see my belongings" and start walking closer to the end of the x-ray chute. She gets even snippier, and essentially blocks my way. I tell her that the website says passengers should "insist" on keeping property in sight. Without further discussion there seems to be an effective compromise where I stand about 5 feet from where she originally put me and at least have some line-of-site to my stuff, which by this point is holding up the entire lane.
Female screener finds male 3-striper to do the opt-out. The checkpoint was swarming with 3 stripers; I saw at least 4. Male screener identifies my stuff and moves farther down stream. Groper was older--maybe 60 ish--and mumbled his little speech so much that I never heard the word "resistance" and so didn't get the chance to ask about touching my genitals.
Patdown was uneventful except that he was being so aggressive with my waistband that he was pulling my pants down from behind. I literally had to tell him, "please don't pull my pants down," after which he backed off. These pants were casual khakis and not particularly loose.
He also "found" my boarding pass and platic comb in my pockets and insisted they be removed. Said I could hold them in my hands, but I tossed them in the nearby bin with my laptop. This whole thing of insisting to see every little item when it is obvious what it is from the patdown is absurd. This is the mentality that leads to people being asked to remove medical devices, jewelry, and diapers. TSA can't get it through their head that there is a big difference between their job of screening for WEI and their apparent goal to visually identify every item someone is carrying.
Whole thing took about 5 minutes from opt-out to release.
I opt out when motioned into the MMW. Female screener says OK, and walks through gate next to the MMW. I try to follow her, and she gets snippy and says "you can't go through there, you have to go through the WTMD." I think she was hoping for an alarm, but whatever. She moves the chain blocking the WTMD and I go through. No alarm. Then she tried to make me stand right by the WTMD well out of sight of my stuff. I say "I need to see my belongings" and start walking closer to the end of the x-ray chute. She gets even snippier, and essentially blocks my way. I tell her that the website says passengers should "insist" on keeping property in sight. Without further discussion there seems to be an effective compromise where I stand about 5 feet from where she originally put me and at least have some line-of-site to my stuff, which by this point is holding up the entire lane.
Female screener finds male 3-striper to do the opt-out. The checkpoint was swarming with 3 stripers; I saw at least 4. Male screener identifies my stuff and moves farther down stream. Groper was older--maybe 60 ish--and mumbled his little speech so much that I never heard the word "resistance" and so didn't get the chance to ask about touching my genitals.
Patdown was uneventful except that he was being so aggressive with my waistband that he was pulling my pants down from behind. I literally had to tell him, "please don't pull my pants down," after which he backed off. These pants were casual khakis and not particularly loose.
He also "found" my boarding pass and platic comb in my pockets and insisted they be removed. Said I could hold them in my hands, but I tossed them in the nearby bin with my laptop. This whole thing of insisting to see every little item when it is obvious what it is from the patdown is absurd. This is the mentality that leads to people being asked to remove medical devices, jewelry, and diapers. TSA can't get it through their head that there is a big difference between their job of screening for WEI and their apparent goal to visually identify every item someone is carrying.
Whole thing took about 5 minutes from opt-out to release.
Jun 29, 2011, 7:05 am
#1498
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,498
Bruce
Jun 29, 2011, 10:16 am
#1499
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: AA 1MM
Posts: 3,182
Last time I went through LAX I didn't opt out but as I came through NOS the guy takes my arm and says "I need to see under your watch." Didn't even have a chance to ask him to change gloves... Don't care about my skin so much, but I really don't like the idea of these guys laying a finger on something that costs three times their monthly salary...
Jun 29, 2011, 10:28 am
#1500
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 959
Last time I went through LAX I didn't opt out but as I came through NOS the guy takes my arm and says "I need to see under your watch." Didn't even have a chance to ask him to change gloves... Don't care about my skin so much, but I really don't like the idea of these guys laying a finger on something that costs three times their monthly salary...
I would also like to know what the H3LL kind of WEI could be hidden under a watch???
