Rampo

I hate to be the bearer of more bad Thailand news (I'm still going in May!), but the American Embassy in Bangkok has warned visitors to avoid being near the anti-Thaksin rally in Sanam Luang this Saturday, Feb. 4. PM Thaksin is not noted for his patience with dissent, and the embassy and others apparently believe that there is a real potential for violence, especially if pro-Thaksin gangs also show up.

77W_12A

Definitely still go. I wouldn't worry too much about it. I feel safer in BKK than I do in certain parts of LA. Enjoy your trip.

Rampo

Rest assured, there is no doubt about my going. My friend in Thailand will kill me if I don't show up. I agree about Bangkok being safe. Even at the anti-Thaksin rally, the danger isn't about violence being aimed at foreigners but of foreigners being caught between opposing forces if trouble does break out. So if I were in Bangkok, I would schedule my tour of the Grand Palace or Wat Phra Kaeo for a day other than February 4.

MAN Flyer

A warning to avoid Bangkok following a warning about Samui. It's a good job there are people keeping an eye on these things for us.

tedkarma

The US Embassies habitually warn people, in many countries, to stay away from protests. Not a bad idea really. I wouldn't be overly concerned - but I would stay away from political protests in ANY COUNTRY - except my own.

The situation in Samui is heavily overpublicized - IMO - party because such problems tend to be a bit unusual here. Back home, they would make the local papers, probably NOT the national news - and never the international news. I'm not saying it was not a bad situation - I am just saying that it needs to be put in perspective.

Rampo

I agree that one shouldn't make too much of the warnings regarding either the Sanam Luang area of Bangkok (I reiterate - for February 4 ONLY) or Samui. Re: the latter, I have heard from a number of sources that Samui is having its difficulties and is not quite as pleasant as it once was. Recently a Thai friend left Samui after only a couple of months because he thought there was an unusually high prevelance of yaba usage among the working folks. I certainly don't advocate not going to Samui, but if one is trying to decide between Samui or another beach resort area in Thailand, I think it is something to consider.
As for this Saturday's anti-Thaksin rally, it should be interesting. Mr. Thaksin has been rather heavy-handed, with sometimes fatal results, in his attempts to retain and aggrandize his power. I hope everything comes off peacefully, but it is far from a certainty.

tedkarma

I think people often misunderstand "yaba" use - while it is "drug abuse" it is a stimulant that people who work long long hours (or all night) use. It was a common problem in Taiwan too - presented as drug abuse - as I guess it was . . . but the real issue was people working two or three jobs - going several days without sleep.

Many people who work in the bar/prostitution/club environments probably partake - to stay energetic for their work. (notice the Thai friend says "among working folks")

I'm not condoning it - but people should it is not just people who are running about drug crazed - many times it is just people who are tired, staying up all night, trying to do their jobs well.

Yaba, too, needs to be put in perspective.

allthai

Thanks for the warning but I don't think anyone visiting Thailand is interested in a Taksin (anything) rally. Avoiding Sanam Luang during any kind of protest is a good idea. At least they can demonstrate and protest unlike most countries in Asia.

Maybe the US Government should put out a permanent warning for anti Bush rallies in Washington D.C. and tell the world to stay away. How about police brutality warnings for L.A. the list goes on and on.

Again thanks for the heads up for Sanam Luang this weekend. We will be at the Flower Festival in Chiang Mai no worries.

Randy and Ning

transpac

While many consider the current situation to be more like May 1992 than May 1973, and based on what little experience I have here, it doesn't seem like this will get nearly as violent as either of those two previous incidents. Most Thais have little to gain, and a lot to lose if things get out of control, excepting the two adversaries in this showdown. I'll be out and about today but will avoid the area where the rally is planned.

You have plenty of time between now and May to make a go/no-go decision.

Regarding Koh Samui, most tourists seem to traverse the island without incident, but there have been numerous letter to the editor in the local English-language press about minor, and major incidents ranging from taxi extortion, purse-snatching and mugging to assault, and in an recent unfortunate incident, the rape and murder of a young British woman. I've been, although it was ~ 1 year ago, and did not have or observe any problems, but knowing what I now know I would be extremely careful. There seems to be a bit of lawlessness to the place?

For the latest dirt on Samui you can catch up here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=30


Foreigners warned about Saturday's Anti-Thaksin demonstration

The U.S. Embassy in Thailand on Thursday warned American citizens to stay away from an anti-government rally planned Saturday in Bangkok for fear of violence.

Public Announcement from U.S. Embassy Bangkok
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:34:52 +0700[/b]

Attention American Citizens:

The Royal Thai Police (RTP) authorities have confirmed that a
large demonstration is expected to occur in the area of the King Rama 5
statue, Rajdamneon Avenue, near Sanam Luang and Government House in
Bangkok on Saturday, February 4. Police estimate up to 100,000 people
will gather in an anti-Thai Prime Minister Thaksin demonstration headed
by Sonthi Limthongkul, a prominent Thai government critic. The crowd
will include several diverse groups of demonstrators and is expected to
start assembling in the morning with no announced starting or ending
times. Organizers have not indicated a marching route, should they
leave the area.

Bangkok demonstrations are usually peaceful in nature, but all
demonstrations are unpredictable and conditions can change unexpectedly.
The RTP has indicated that 2,000 - 3,000 police officers will be on hand
to maintain public order. There are concerns that anti-Sonthi groups
may attempt to confront the demonstrators, which could lead to violence.
For this reason, please do not approach the demonstrators.

The Embassy encourages all Americans to avoid this area. Should you
find yourself in or near the demonstrators, move indoors for shelter
until the demonstration has passed, or ask for police assistance to
leave the area. While the demonstration is not expected to pass near
U.S. Embassy facilities, Embassy entrances and functions may be
restricted depending on circumstances.

For the latest security information, Americans living and traveling
abroad should regularly monitor the Department's Bureau of Consular
Affairs Internet web site at http://travel.state.gov, where the current
Worldwide Caution, Public Announcements, and Travel Warnings can be
found. Up-to-date information on security can also be obtained by
calling 1-888-407-4747 toll free in the U.S., or, for callers outside
the U.S. and Canada, a regular toll line at 1-317-472-2328. These
numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday
through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays).

--US Embassy, Bangkok, 2006-02-02

Trajan

yes, I agree with that statement 100%

by the way, the rally went very peacefully (considering the size)

Rampo

Just to be clear, my Thai friend is not at all from a HiSo or even a middle class background. He's just an ordinary working guy himself, and he told me about things he observed in the areas where he lived and where he worked while in Samui. He felt that there was a significant change - not for the good - from when he had spent time in Samui a few years earlier.
As for yaba, I'm hardly a pollyanna when it comes to drugs and I understand that many use the drug to function and not purely for recreation or escape. But consistent methamphetamine use has been know to produce significant personality changes in many and violent behavior in some. And, again, from what my friend told me, there seems to have been an observable increase in its usage in Samui.

Trajan

Having grown-up in the States and living for the past 10 years in Thailand, I think its rather amusing when I hear over-stated alarming safety warnings about conditons in Bangkok and other areas of Thailand (when I think of safety conditions in big cities in the US).....I personally feel very threatened (from a safety viewpoint) walking alone in many areas of San Francisco (like the Tenderloin etc.) and many areas of Los Angeles in the middle of the day compared with walking alone in the very poorest neigborhoods of Bangkok in the middle of the night...

although Thailand is certainly not free from violent crimes, generally speaking the level of violent crimes is nowhere near the level of violent crimes in the West (especially in metro areas of the US).... I think it would be much more logical to loudly warn Thai visitors of safety issues in the US (rather than the other way around)....

when a random violent crime or mugging (especially involving a foreigner) occurs here it is very big news because it is relatively uncommon...but in places like LA, a random murder (for even trivial spur-of-the-moment things like car-jackings), mugging or rape is so common it barely makes the local newspapers and evening TV broadcast, let alone national or international news....

certainly keep alert, maintain your common sense, stay away from large mobs of people angrily protesting any issue (as in any city--unless you are a protestor) but dont become paranoid...

I think the disproportionate fear-factor arises from ignorance, the unknown, the unfamiliar and inexperience....

Rampo

I also feel that Thailand is a fairly safe place to visit, and that Bangkok is much safer than pretty much any major US city that I can think of. I live and work in the Washington DC area and am WELL aware how much safer I feel in Thailand. While I'm happy that Saturday's rally came off without violence, I don't think that the warning to stay away - or at least to be aware of some risk of violence - was unwarranted. Thaksin has proven himself to be something of a loose cannon when it comes to taking care of those who annoy him (I'm thinking of the scores of deaths of Muslim detainees and thousands of deaths of low level drug dealers in alleged "shootouts") and the potential for violence definitely existed.

As for Samui, the issue came up specifically when someone was asking about whether they should go to Krabi or Samui. I noted that I have heard from several in-country sources that Samui appeared to be going through a rough patch. I also noted that most tourists probably wouldn't notice a thing and have a wonderful time as the concerns about Samui seem to come primarily from those who remember Samui THEN as opposed to Samui NOW.

transpac

In a recent shooting in Samui, where a Thai man shot and killed a policeman (who was objecting to his waving around of a gun) in a crowded club, one foreigner was wounded in the leg. Again, not intentionally targeted at foreigners, many shots discharged, but completely random. I'm not sure there's anything you can do to avoid that type of situation, other than to duck when you hear gunfire? In many other cases on Samui though foreigners are specifically targeted. Whether it a simple bag snatch from a tourist, or the shooting of an American nightclub owner (wounded, recovering in the U.S.). I think it helps for people to be aware of random and targeted, frequent and infrequent, problems in any destination. And this is the appropriate forum for such discussions. I don't think we're being negative, or paranoid or alarmist by highlighting these issues.


From today's Bangkok Post, this is typical of violent crime in Thailand, of which there seems to be a lot:

Bank queue-jumper shot by annoyed security guard in mall

Nonthaburi _ A security guard shot and wounded a university student after she annoyed him by jumping the queue at a Bangkok Bank branch at a shopping mall in Muang district yesterday. A female teller was also wounded when the guard, Thong-arn Nalard, 37, lost his temper during an argument with the queue-jumper, Patthira sae Tia, 25, a student at Sripathum University.

(I am a Bangkok Bank customer.)

Many other countries' embassies here in Bangkok issued similar warnings re: the 4 Feb protest, although the U.S. was the first, as far as I am aware. I spoke with someone who attended the rally, and he said that there were a few problems, and that it could/might have escalated into something worse. I think there is another rally planned for tomorrow, but am unsure of the details.

Trajan

please dont get me wrong....event notices and stay away advisories (as long as they are not hysterical and paranoid) are always welcome .....another rally is planned for tomorrow and is predicted to be even larger...I certainly wont go.... I was just making an observation about warnings about Bangkok...

for example, I regularly get emails from friends in the States (including Washington DC) asking me why I am in an "unsafe" and "dangerous" 3rd world country (and please come back to "civilization")....that reminds me of the time (just one example of countless examples) that my friends and I from California visited the capital mall (intensely patrolled by capital? police or guards) and then decided to walk to a ceremony at the District of Columbia Court of Appeals just after lunch time on a sunny day...that was one of the scariest walks in my life .....I NEVER have that feeling anywhere in Bangkok or Thailand for that matter (Im not talking about just tourist areas)... so to hear warnings about "danger" and "safety" from friends (and relatives) in the US sometimes loses alot of credibility...

transpac...there are always instances of violence (especially in the sleazier underbelly of semi-legal or illegal tourist "entertainment" areas)...no denying that...its just a matter of overall comparison (and when you compare you have to compare OVERALL...some foreigners here ensconce themselves in only one tiny facet and then unfairly make generalizations....)

also sadly ..lots of bad elements from the West (especially Europe and Russia for some reason) (fugitive criminals, mafia-types etc.) are coming to Thailand and adding to problems which unavoidably are already native....but even then, over all, I feel comparatively safe...

traffic safety is another issue