Apr 25, 2017, 6:09 am
Last edit by: JDiver
AA Ground Staff May Deny Boarding for China Transit Without Visa Issues
This thread is ONLY for discussion of American Airlines' ground staff dealing with Chinese TWOV issues. For further information, see:
FlyerTalk Forums > Destinations > Asia > China Forum
China Visa / Visas Master Thread (all you need to know)
and / or
China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread
The issue: though Chinese immigration authorities seem disposed to allow transit without visa for passengers going on to flights with connections in non-China, non-origin destinations, e.g. LAX-PVG <permitted TWOV> PVG-NRT-LAX, AA ground staff have denied boarding to passengers for the XXX-China leg.
Even if such a passenger were to secure alternate arrangements or reimbursement, there is still sure to be considerable inconvenience. Until AA informs ground staff such travel complies with China TWOV rules, purchasing such an itinerary currently entails some degree of risk, as evidenced in the following thread.
AA generally uses IATA Timatic to verify boarding eligibility. Link to Timatic Web provided courtesy of United Airlines; this form provides information on entry requirements, not departure policies as might be administered by any airline.
144 TWOV China- AA Issues/Questions
Apr 24, 2017, 7:53 pm
#513
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I've noticed a lot of posts here by FTers that don't list AA in their profiles, which has me guessing they've never checked in at an AA counter in a TWOV situation, or dealt with AA personnel and their computer skills. Has anyone other than FlyingJay ever been denied boarding by AA in a similar TWOV situation? Just wondering how common it is for this to happen at AA counters.
Is this the first time we've seen this reported on the AA forum? I can't recall prior threads here on the topic.
Is this the first time we've seen this reported on the AA forum? I can't recall prior threads here on the topic.
Apr 24, 2017, 7:54 pm
#514
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https://www.aa.com/i18n/Tariffs/AA1.html
See
Refusal to transport
ACROSS INT'L BOUNDARIES - 74
(D)ACROSS INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARIES - WHEN A PASSENGER IS TRAVELING ACROSS ANY INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY IF:
THE TRAVEL DOCUMENTS OF SUCH PASSENGER ARE NOT IN ORDER;
See
Refusal to transport
ACROSS INT'L BOUNDARIES - 74
(D)ACROSS INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARIES - WHEN A PASSENGER IS TRAVELING ACROSS ANY INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY IF:
THE TRAVEL DOCUMENTS OF SUCH PASSENGER ARE NOT IN ORDER;
Last edited by anacapamalibu; Apr 24, 2017 at 8:01 pm
Apr 24, 2017, 7:56 pm
#515
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: AA LT GLD 1MM
Posts: 811
Respecting Microwave's post 456, I'll just add one comment: What's particularly egregious and disturbing about OP's situation is that AA forced him to pay more to refare due to (improperly) denying the OP travel. The fact that they now refuse to reimburse even the fare difference, in full and in cash, is not a tenable stance because now there is a situation where AA improperly denied pax travel and AA profited from it. I don't think this specifically is ever a motivation for AA agents, but it's bad optics / looks terrible for AA when they leave open the possibility that check-in agents can wrongly deny pax boarding so that they can force them to pay a higher fare.
Sounds like a bait and switch to me.
Apr 24, 2017, 8:03 pm
#516
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From the international tariff:
Note that AA requires that passengers indemnify AA if the passenger causes AA to pay penalties for transporting a non-admissible passenger.
PASSPORTS AND VISAS - 71
(B)PASSPORTS AND VISAS
EACH PASSENGER DESIRING TRANSPORTATION ACROSS ANY INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OBTAINING ALL NECESSARY TRAVEL DOCUMENTS AND FOR COMPLYING WITH ALL GOVERNMENT TRAVEL REQUIREMENTS. THE PASSENGER MUST PRESENT ALL EXIT, ENTRY AND OTHER DOCUMENTS REQUIRED BY THE LAWS, AND, UNLESS APPLICABLE LAWS PROVIDE OTHERWISE, SHALL INDEMNIFY THE CARRIER FOR ANY LOSS, DAMAGE, OR EXPENSE SUFFERED OR INCURRED BY SUCH CARRIER BY REASON OF SUCH PASSENGER'S FAILURE TO DO SO. CARRIER IS NOT LIABLE TO THE PASSENGER FOR LOSS OR EXPENSE DUE TO THE PASSENGER'S FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PROVISION.CARRIER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REFUSE CARRIAGE TO ANY PASSENGER WHO HAS NOT COMPLIED WITH APPLICABLE LAWS, REGULATIONS, ORDERS, DEMANDS, OR REQUIREMENTS OR WHOSE DOCUMENTS ARE NOT COMPLETE.NO CARRIER SHALL BE LIABLE FOR ANY AID OR INFORMATION GIVEN BY ANY AGENT OR EMPLOYEE OF SUCH CARRIER TO ANY PASSENGER IN CONNECTION WITH OBTAINING SUCH DOCUMENTS OR COMPLYING WITH SUCH LAWS, WHETHER GIVEN ORALLY OR IN WRITING OR OTHERWISE.IN ADDITION, CARRIER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO HOLD, PHOTOCOPY OR OTHERWISE IMAGE REPRODUCE A TRAVEL DOCUMENT PRESENTED BY ANY PASSENGER AND ACCEPTED BY THE CARRIER AS A CONDITION OF BOARDING.
SUBJECT TO APPLICABLE LAWS AND REGULATIONS, THE PASSENGER AGREES TO PAY THE APPLICABLE FARE WHENEVER CARRIER, ON GOVERNMENT ORDER, IS REQUIRED TO RETURN A PASSENGER TO HIS POINT OF ORIGIN OR ELSEWHERE DUE TO THE PASSENGER'S INADMISSIBILITY INTO OR DEPORTATION FROM A COUNTRY, WHETHER OF TRANSIT OR OF DESTINATION.THE FARE APPLICABLE WILL BE THE FARE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN APPLICABLE HAD THE ORIGINAL TICKET DESIGNATED THE REVISED DESTINATION ON THE NEW TICKET.ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FARE SO APPLICABLE AND THE FARE PAID BY THE PASSENGER WILL BE COLLECTED FROM OR REFUNDED TO THE PASSENGER AS THE CASE MAY BE. CARRIER MAY APPLY TO THE PAYMENT OF SUCH FARES ANY FUNDS PAID BY THE PASSENGER TO CARRIER FOR UNUSED CARRIAGE, OR ANY FUNDS OF THE PASSENGER IN THE POSSESSION OF CARRIER.THE FARE COLLECTED FOR CARRIAGE TO THE POINT OF REFUSAL OR DEPORTATION WILL NOT BE REFUNDED BY THE CARRIER, UNLESS THE LAW OF SUCH COUNTRY REQUIRES THAT SUCH FARE BE REFUNDED.
PASSENGER TRANSITING WITHOUT VISA (TRWOV) - SERVICE CHARGE A PASSENGER TRANSITING, WITHOUT A VISA, A POINT(S) WITHIN A COUNTRY REQUIRING A VISA FOR LAWFUL ENTRY, WILL BE ASSESSED A SERVICE CHARGE OF USD 50.00/CAD 56.00 WHEN AA IS THE CARRIER PROVIDING SUCH PASSENGER WITH TRANSPORTATION TO SUCH POINT(S).THE TRANSIT WITHOUT VISA SERVICE CHARGE WILL ONLY APPLY TO INTERLINE PASSENGERS. THE FEE IS WAIVED FOR ONLINE PASSENGERS.
NOTE:THIS SERVICE CHARGE WILL BE ASSESSED EITHER WHEN AA ISSUES/REISSUES THE PASSENGER'S TICKET OR WHEN PASSENGER CHECK-INS FOR FLIGHT.
EXCEPTION:THE TRANSIT WITHOUT VISA (TRWOV) FEE OF USD 50.00/CAD 56.00 ONE WAY IS WAIVED FOR TRAVEL BETWEEN JAPAN AND BRAZIL/PERU.
PASSENGERS APPLYING FOR VISA APPLICATIONS - SERVICE CHARGE AA WILL ASSESS A USD 25.00/CAD 28.00 FEE FOR THE APPLICATION PROCESS OF OBTAINING AN ELECTRONIC TRAVEL AUTHORIZATION (ELECTRONIC VISA) FOR CUSTOMERS
(B)PASSPORTS AND VISAS
EACH PASSENGER DESIRING TRANSPORTATION ACROSS ANY INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OBTAINING ALL NECESSARY TRAVEL DOCUMENTS AND FOR COMPLYING WITH ALL GOVERNMENT TRAVEL REQUIREMENTS. THE PASSENGER MUST PRESENT ALL EXIT, ENTRY AND OTHER DOCUMENTS REQUIRED BY THE LAWS, AND, UNLESS APPLICABLE LAWS PROVIDE OTHERWISE, SHALL INDEMNIFY THE CARRIER FOR ANY LOSS, DAMAGE, OR EXPENSE SUFFERED OR INCURRED BY SUCH CARRIER BY REASON OF SUCH PASSENGER'S FAILURE TO DO SO. CARRIER IS NOT LIABLE TO THE PASSENGER FOR LOSS OR EXPENSE DUE TO THE PASSENGER'S FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PROVISION.CARRIER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REFUSE CARRIAGE TO ANY PASSENGER WHO HAS NOT COMPLIED WITH APPLICABLE LAWS, REGULATIONS, ORDERS, DEMANDS, OR REQUIREMENTS OR WHOSE DOCUMENTS ARE NOT COMPLETE.NO CARRIER SHALL BE LIABLE FOR ANY AID OR INFORMATION GIVEN BY ANY AGENT OR EMPLOYEE OF SUCH CARRIER TO ANY PASSENGER IN CONNECTION WITH OBTAINING SUCH DOCUMENTS OR COMPLYING WITH SUCH LAWS, WHETHER GIVEN ORALLY OR IN WRITING OR OTHERWISE.IN ADDITION, CARRIER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO HOLD, PHOTOCOPY OR OTHERWISE IMAGE REPRODUCE A TRAVEL DOCUMENT PRESENTED BY ANY PASSENGER AND ACCEPTED BY THE CARRIER AS A CONDITION OF BOARDING.
SUBJECT TO APPLICABLE LAWS AND REGULATIONS, THE PASSENGER AGREES TO PAY THE APPLICABLE FARE WHENEVER CARRIER, ON GOVERNMENT ORDER, IS REQUIRED TO RETURN A PASSENGER TO HIS POINT OF ORIGIN OR ELSEWHERE DUE TO THE PASSENGER'S INADMISSIBILITY INTO OR DEPORTATION FROM A COUNTRY, WHETHER OF TRANSIT OR OF DESTINATION.THE FARE APPLICABLE WILL BE THE FARE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN APPLICABLE HAD THE ORIGINAL TICKET DESIGNATED THE REVISED DESTINATION ON THE NEW TICKET.ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FARE SO APPLICABLE AND THE FARE PAID BY THE PASSENGER WILL BE COLLECTED FROM OR REFUNDED TO THE PASSENGER AS THE CASE MAY BE. CARRIER MAY APPLY TO THE PAYMENT OF SUCH FARES ANY FUNDS PAID BY THE PASSENGER TO CARRIER FOR UNUSED CARRIAGE, OR ANY FUNDS OF THE PASSENGER IN THE POSSESSION OF CARRIER.THE FARE COLLECTED FOR CARRIAGE TO THE POINT OF REFUSAL OR DEPORTATION WILL NOT BE REFUNDED BY THE CARRIER, UNLESS THE LAW OF SUCH COUNTRY REQUIRES THAT SUCH FARE BE REFUNDED.
PASSENGER TRANSITING WITHOUT VISA (TRWOV) - SERVICE CHARGE A PASSENGER TRANSITING, WITHOUT A VISA, A POINT(S) WITHIN A COUNTRY REQUIRING A VISA FOR LAWFUL ENTRY, WILL BE ASSESSED A SERVICE CHARGE OF USD 50.00/CAD 56.00 WHEN AA IS THE CARRIER PROVIDING SUCH PASSENGER WITH TRANSPORTATION TO SUCH POINT(S).THE TRANSIT WITHOUT VISA SERVICE CHARGE WILL ONLY APPLY TO INTERLINE PASSENGERS. THE FEE IS WAIVED FOR ONLINE PASSENGERS.
NOTE:THIS SERVICE CHARGE WILL BE ASSESSED EITHER WHEN AA ISSUES/REISSUES THE PASSENGER'S TICKET OR WHEN PASSENGER CHECK-INS FOR FLIGHT.
EXCEPTION:THE TRANSIT WITHOUT VISA (TRWOV) FEE OF USD 50.00/CAD 56.00 ONE WAY IS WAIVED FOR TRAVEL BETWEEN JAPAN AND BRAZIL/PERU.
PASSENGERS APPLYING FOR VISA APPLICATIONS - SERVICE CHARGE AA WILL ASSESS A USD 25.00/CAD 28.00 FEE FOR THE APPLICATION PROCESS OF OBTAINING AN ELECTRONIC TRAVEL AUTHORIZATION (ELECTRONIC VISA) FOR CUSTOMERS
Apr 24, 2017, 8:06 pm
#517
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Apr 24, 2017, 8:07 pm
#518
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I've noticed a lot of posts here by FTers that don't list AA in their profiles, which has me guessing they've never checked in at an AA counter in a TWOV situation, or dealt with AA personnel and their computer skills. Has anyone other than FlyingJay ever been denied boarding by AA in a similar TWOV situation? Just wondering how common it is for this to happen at AA counters.
Is this the first time we've seen this reported on the AA forum? I can't recall prior threads here on the topic.
Is this the first time we've seen this reported on the AA forum? I can't recall prior threads here on the topic.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...l#post27924522
and this post in particular refers to some difficulties:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27924522-post9.html
And, in researching all this, I've found that it definitely happens from time to time, no doubt about it.
As I posted above, a lot of new folks at LAX (and elsewhere) who do -not- have the years of experience that *might* help them come up with a solution the way maybe one of the old school ticket agents might be able to.
Apr 24, 2017, 9:32 pm
#520
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"We use this data base to make decisions about whether or not to accept customers for travel based on the documentation in their possession at the time of departure."
There was no documentation in their possession and no need for documentation.
This is a catchall. Anyone traveling internationally could be wrongfully denied boarding, with no recourse, for "documentation" or lack of. Best to find an airline that has better "trained" personnel.
They need to change their website from
"If you don’t have the required documentation and identification,you will not be allowed to board the plane and would be responsible for any resulting costs."
to
If you do or don't or we think you might not have the required documentation and identification,you will not be allowed to board the plane and would be responsible for any resulting costs.
There was no documentation in their possession and no need for documentation.
This is a catchall. Anyone traveling internationally could be wrongfully denied boarding, with no recourse, for "documentation" or lack of. Best to find an airline that has better "trained" personnel.
They need to change their website from
"If you don’t have the required documentation and identification,you will not be allowed to board the plane and would be responsible for any resulting costs."
to
If you do or don't or we think you might not have the required documentation and identification,you will not be allowed to board the plane and would be responsible for any resulting costs.
Apr 24, 2017, 10:29 pm
#521
Ambassador: China
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Apr 24, 2017, 10:46 pm
#522
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I've noticed a lot of posts here by FTers that don't list AA in their profiles, which has me guessing they've never checked in at an AA counter in a TWOV situation, or dealt with AA personnel and their computer skills. Has anyone other than FlyingJay ever been denied boarding by AA in a similar TWOV situation? Just wondering how common it is for this to happen at AA counters.
Is this the first time we've seen this reported on the AA forum? I can't recall prior threads here on the topic.
Is this the first time we've seen this reported on the AA forum? I can't recall prior threads here on the topic.
Apr 25, 2017, 12:09 am
#523
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Yes it happened to me. Finally one agent gave me a code to reference think it was TIRULES 35 that listed the specific rules and could be entered by agent to let you travel. However even armed with that agents still gave grief. This was at LAX Flagship checkin to boot.
Got an actual visa Once I learned that you could get a 10 yr ME visa for $160 without ever having a previous visa.
Got an actual visa Once I learned that you could get a 10 yr ME visa for $160 without ever having a previous visa.
Apr 25, 2017, 9:37 pm
#524
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 36
Sill no secondary response from AA. They initially responded 20 minutes after I messaged social media department on Saturday inquiring about the long delay. I guess I need to do that again?
I responded to the initial email confirming I had proper international documents and that the vouchers were not a satisfactory resolution. I will keep everyone posted.
I responded to the initial email confirming I had proper international documents and that the vouchers were not a satisfactory resolution. I will keep everyone posted.
Apr 26, 2017, 2:03 am
#525
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: not far from MUC
Posts: 6,620
I can buy a ticket A-B-C-A ticket (based on a fare which is a r/t from A to C) and easily spend more hours on the ground in B than I would in C.
Anyone care to say which is my destination and where am I only in transit on such a trip?
In any case, the meaning of those terms as they are used regarding an e-ticket isn't a whole lot of use to the immigration officers at B and C. You might not even be entering the country at C!