Non-Elite Check-In Upgrade Over Plat 500-Milers
Jul 21, 2016, 8:52 am
#46
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,232
My only problem here is that AA should offer the paid upgrades to the PLAT member as well as non-status. Here , the the OP was NOT given the opportunity to pay for the upgrade. I have no problem with selling upgrades but I have a BIG problem with the OP or other elite flyers not being given the opportunity to buy the upgrade and non-elites being provided the buy up.
The system should work, in my opinion, as follows - request 500 mile upgrade- if it doesn't clear at window or prior to gate and upgrades are going to be sold , then ask the elite if they want to purchase the upgrade. The way it worked here is quite poor - the OP was specifically excluded from the buy up. I have no problem with AA trying to get max revenue but the elites should get first crack at buy ups and then have a choice to buy up or play the 500 miler lottery. In the OP's case, his loyalty was a significant DISAADVANTAGE
The system should work, in my opinion, as follows - request 500 mile upgrade- if it doesn't clear at window or prior to gate and upgrades are going to be sold , then ask the elite if they want to purchase the upgrade. The way it worked here is quite poor - the OP was specifically excluded from the buy up. I have no problem with AA trying to get max revenue but the elites should get first crack at buy ups and then have a choice to buy up or play the 500 miler lottery. In the OP's case, his loyalty was a significant DISAADVANTAGE
Jul 21, 2016, 9:25 am
#47
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 3,049
I find the current system a lot more honest than one that makes is seem like you need to pay to get the upgrade when in reality the LFBU is only available when in the majority of cases there will be no need to pay if you are on the list already.
Jul 21, 2016, 9:33 am
#48
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 3,049
Then what is the meaning of the word accommodation in the below from AA's own site?? 
Paid LFB Upgrades are only offered when premium class seats are available based on the number of passengers confirmed in the premium class and accommodation of any previously submitted upgrade requests.
Paid LFB Upgrades are only offered when premium class seats are available based on the number of passengers confirmed in the premium class and accommodation of any previously submitted upgrade requests.
You can take account of many things that have not yet happened, taking account of accommodating does not mean you have to actually accommodate before you take account of it.
If the intention was to actually accommodate everyone first then they would have said 'after processing previous upgrade requests', instead of 'taking account of' the accommodation.
This isn't an ambiguous statement despite the fact that some try ot present it as such.
The whole LFBU process wouldn't work without the anticipation and estimation part of the current approach as they need to be able to offer the LFBU when people check-in online or at a kiosk, without this they would have to process the upgrade queue far earlier than they wish to do so.
What we have is a compromise on both sides, AA ends up not selling as many $$ upgrades as they could, we end up on rare occasions missing out on an upgrade we'd otherwise have got.
I much prefer this current system to just letting AA sell as many LFBU as they can and only use what they can't sell for Elite upgrades...
Jul 21, 2016, 10:50 am
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,234
It seems pretty clear to me that "accomodate" means exactly the same thing as "process" or "clear".
You're the only one talking about accounting.
Was the system designed or intended to occasionally screw an elite? Maybe. I suppose that's their prerogative. But they should be more honest about it.
You're the only one talking about accounting.
Was the system designed or intended to occasionally screw an elite? Maybe. I suppose that's their prerogative. But they should be more honest about it.
Jul 21, 2016, 11:28 am
#50
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Durham, NC USA
Programs: AA EXP and 1MM, UA 1K, HH Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 424
I'll weigh in at the risk of being blasted by others. The wording is misleading at best, and possibly an intentional misrepresentation of their actual practice.
Whether what happened was technically consistent with the wording AA uses, in my opinion is is not consistent with how the majority of the public would interpret the wording. Is it okay for AA to use misleading wording - they seem to think so and they are in control. For those who find it unacceptable they have the option to go to another airline.
It is the same argument that they use with the Y-up fares. The majority of the public would assume that they have legitimately purchased a first class ticket based on the way it is sold on the AA web-site, but as some find out, you need to read the fine print because you can end up in coach. Once again, in my opinion, misleading wording and sales tactics but it does not seem to be negatively effecting their revenue.
Whether what happened was technically consistent with the wording AA uses, in my opinion is is not consistent with how the majority of the public would interpret the wording. Is it okay for AA to use misleading wording - they seem to think so and they are in control. For those who find it unacceptable they have the option to go to another airline.
It is the same argument that they use with the Y-up fares. The majority of the public would assume that they have legitimately purchased a first class ticket based on the way it is sold on the AA web-site, but as some find out, you need to read the fine print because you can end up in coach. Once again, in my opinion, misleading wording and sales tactics but it does not seem to be negatively effecting their revenue.
Last edited by aztimm; Jul 21, 2016 at 2:55 pm Reason: removed snark
Jul 21, 2016, 11:49 am
#51
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,769
I've just generally given up on using 500-mile certs. I've only had one UG clear in the last year using these. The way they stretch the window to the very last minute, holding out for just about anything that can happen - selling F, having EXPs switch flights, etc. - makes it just that much tougher for GLD/PLT to clear. Just again today, up until T-2, 1 seat in F still for sale, I'm #1 on the UG list...and then 3 more people pop up ahead of me. With PMUS I woulda been locked in and that would have been that.
In my case, being DCA-based, I've also been hit be the double whammy of the 319s going to only 8 in F. I'm almost always #3-4 on the UG list when the door closes. In an old PMUS 319, no problem.
It is what it is, but, bringing it back relevant to this thread, I'd almost rather that they just offer GLD/PLT LFBUs for sale at the windows and do away with this 500-mile upgrade mirage altogether, because it rarely amounts to anything anymore.
In my case, being DCA-based, I've also been hit be the double whammy of the 319s going to only 8 in F. I'm almost always #3-4 on the UG list when the door closes. In an old PMUS 319, no problem.
It is what it is, but, bringing it back relevant to this thread, I'd almost rather that they just offer GLD/PLT LFBUs for sale at the windows and do away with this 500-mile upgrade mirage altogether, because it rarely amounts to anything anymore.
Jul 21, 2016, 1:24 pm
#53
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: AAdvantage, Hilton
Posts: 3,191
If AA is going to offer LFBUs, it's reasonable to expect they clear the upgrade list first. I don't understand what's the point of arguing that.
Last edited by aztimm; Jul 21, 2016 at 2:54 pm Reason: removed portion about other FT'ers.
Jul 21, 2016, 2:00 pm
#54
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Seattle WA
Programs: AS 100K, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 1,828
Not only does UA sell TODs regardless of elites waitlisted for upgrades, they charge higher prices to elites than non-elites for the same UFC.
I can't speak to what DL does, but UA has been doing this for 4 or 5 years now.
Jul 21, 2016, 2:59 pm
#55
Moderator: American AAdvantage
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I'm not seeing defense of upgrades for money by members, and we do not allow posts attacking members at any rate. Our way on FT is discuss the post, not the poster - or as a former Moderator used to say "Play the ball, not the player".
Further calling out of other members for their assumed beliefs or motives, the use of "apologist" or "AApologist" will surely result in deleted posts, and could result in suspension of FT member privileges.
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Further calling out of other members for their assumed beliefs or motives, the use of "apologist" or "AApologist" will surely result in deleted posts, and could result in suspension of FT member privileges.
For further reference:
Abusive Or Disruptive Behavior Or Content Link to this topic
12.1 Friendly, Respectful and Welcoming
FlyerTalk is a community and is intended to be a friendly, helpful and collegial place.
Please post in a friendly, respectful, welcoming manner. 'Snarky,' unfriendly posts will not be allowed. If you don't have something constructive to contribute to a thread, please do not post.
Unhelpful posts, such as "Do a search" or those that merely comment on the worthiness of others' posts or threads are neither friendly nor welcoming and will not be allowed. If you can't be helpful or contribute substantive content to a thread, please refrain from posting.
12.2 Avoid Getting Personal
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
FlyerTalk is a diverse, multi-cultural community. Expressions of prejudice or discrimination in any form are not permitted (such as those concerning race, nationality, religious belief, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, etc).
If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle. Please also see Rule 22 — When you believe someone has violated the rules."
If you have posted in such a way you may have posted other than welcoming, friendly and respectful ways, please feel free to edit your post. If your post is missing, it has been summarily deleted for falling afoul of the Rules.
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Jul 21, 2016, 3:00 pm
#56
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Travel Safety/Security & Texas, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Mod note:
I just went through and cleaned up/deleted a bunch of posts. If you see something that you feel doesn't belong, please click the red exclamation point found to the lower left of the post (if you hover over it, it should say, "alert a moderator to this post"). It will send a message to all forum moderators, and someone will take a look.
Otherwise, I'll invite everyone to take a deep breath, go outside, scream, go for a walk, or do whatever it is that helps you relieve stress before posting a reply to this thread.
One suggestion I have: type up your post. Then step away or do something else for 5-10 minutes. Come back, read what you typed, perhaps edit it, and then click on the SUBMIT button.
Thanks.
I just went through and cleaned up/deleted a bunch of posts. If you see something that you feel doesn't belong, please click the red exclamation point found to the lower left of the post (if you hover over it, it should say, "alert a moderator to this post"). It will send a message to all forum moderators, and someone will take a look.
Otherwise, I'll invite everyone to take a deep breath, go outside, scream, go for a walk, or do whatever it is that helps you relieve stress before posting a reply to this thread.
One suggestion I have: type up your post. Then step away or do something else for 5-10 minutes. Come back, read what you typed, perhaps edit it, and then click on the SUBMIT button.
Thanks.
Jul 21, 2016, 3:15 pm
#57
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Friends, I'd expect seeing more of this.
Y and K-UP fares have gotten cheaper.
The "new" AA is much more revenue recovery driven (perhaps part of the driving factors are its current financials - disastrous if Brent Crude goes up to historic levels) and we're seeing a number of changes reflecting this.
EQD, the new Award / Redeemable miles earning, a new status tier, Premium Economy, a diminution of J seats and elimination of F on most widebody aircraft, 2017 upgrade priority on basis of last 12 month EQD, etc. are all writing on the wall.
(Inscrutable or opaque rules, however, are an old AA hallmark.)
The halcyon days of libertine FFP, cheap and easy status and plentiful upgrades appear to be behind us. But FT is still about how we can "break the code" and squeeze the most juice from this orange.
Y and K-UP fares have gotten cheaper.
The "new" AA is much more revenue recovery driven (perhaps part of the driving factors are its current financials - disastrous if Brent Crude goes up to historic levels) and we're seeing a number of changes reflecting this.
EQD, the new Award / Redeemable miles earning, a new status tier, Premium Economy, a diminution of J seats and elimination of F on most widebody aircraft, 2017 upgrade priority on basis of last 12 month EQD, etc. are all writing on the wall.
(Inscrutable or opaque rules, however, are an old AA hallmark.)
The halcyon days of libertine FFP, cheap and easy status and plentiful upgrades appear to be behind us. But FT is still about how we can "break the code" and squeeze the most juice from this orange.
Jul 21, 2016, 4:23 pm
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
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Jul 21, 2016, 4:30 pm
#59
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: DCA/IAD/WAS
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Jul 21, 2016, 4:46 pm
#60
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
Folks for many years Wall Street (after deregulation) all but ignored the airline industry because it was constantly a bust industry, maybe for the exception of Southwest.
Years later through the Chapter 11 reorganizations, liquidations, mergers and capacity cutting its finally a very profitable industry. Now its under the same scrutiny as any other industry. That means giving away product for free is becoming a big no no. Expect upgrades to become limited and watch F cabins on narrow bodies to become smaller to adapt to the new paradigm of FF programs.
Years later through the Chapter 11 reorganizations, liquidations, mergers and capacity cutting its finally a very profitable industry. Now its under the same scrutiny as any other industry. That means giving away product for free is becoming a big no no. Expect upgrades to become limited and watch F cabins on narrow bodies to become smaller to adapt to the new paradigm of FF programs.