Dec 5, 2012, 8:40 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
MODERATOR GUIDEPOST
The U.K. Air Passenger Duty / APD is "a duty of Excise which is levied on the carriage, from a UK airport, of chargeable passengers on chargeable aircraft... The amount due is dependent on the final destination and class of travel of the chargeable passenger... The reduced rates apply where the passengers are carried in the lowest class of travel on any flight unless the seat pitch exceeds 1.016 metres (40 inches), in which case, whether there is one or more than one class of travel the standard rates apply." Link. Those in transit from other countries are exempt.
As of 01 Apr 2012, the APD is:As of 01 Apr 2013 will be:
The U.K. Air Passenger Duty / APD is "a duty of Excise which is levied on the carriage, from a UK airport, of chargeable passengers on chargeable aircraft... The amount due is dependent on the final destination and class of travel of the chargeable passenger... The reduced rates apply where the passengers are carried in the lowest class of travel on any flight unless the seat pitch exceeds 1.016 metres (40 inches), in which case, whether there is one or more than one class of travel the standard rates apply." Link. Those in transit from other countries are exempt.
As of 01 Apr 2012, the APD is:
- Band A (0 to 2,000 miles): Reduced £13, Standard £26
- Band B (2,001 to 4,000 miles) (e.g. USA, Canada): Reduced £65, Standard £130
- Band C (4,001 to 6,000 miles): Reduced £81, Standard £162
- Band D (over 6,000 miles): Reduced £92, Standard £184
- Band A (0 to 2,000 miles) £13 Reduced, £26 Standard (no change)
- Band B (2,001 to 4,000 miles) (e.g. USA, Canada): Reduced £62, Standard £134
- Band C (4,001 to 6,000 miles): Reduced £83, Standard £166
- Band D (over 6,000 miles): Reduced £94, Standard £188
UK APD / Air Passenger Duty and increases again - Apr 1 2012
Jul 30, 2012, 9:44 am
#301
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
It's a royal pain and now simply avoid LHR for anything but a through fare; that's my recommendation to all.
BTW, this is my post #8,000. Do I get a bunch of SWUs for crossing this threshold?
Jul 30, 2012, 9:45 am
#302
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Nope, that's not the case, as the regulation state with an "or"'
A good travel agent will either build a single itinerary (PNR) with all segments in it, issuing both, separate, tickets from it (segment select), or build the downstream itinerary adding a "YK" inbound segment to it, annotating its ticket number etc, before issuing the APD-exempt ticket from it.
Either way meet this requirement.
A good travel agent will either build a single itinerary (PNR) with all segments in it, issuing both, separate, tickets from it (segment select), or build the downstream itinerary adding a "YK" inbound segment to it, annotating its ticket number etc, before issuing the APD-exempt ticket from it.
Either way meet this requirement.
Cheers.
Jul 30, 2012, 9:49 am
#303
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Why, then, does it seem to difficult for AA agents (even EXP agents) to do this on a combined revenue/award itinerary? My understanding is that they can't do this in one PNR. Can this "YK" method work for a combined revenue/award itinerary? Is this all that needs to be suggested to get it to work?
Jul 30, 2012, 9:58 am
#304
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Programs: AA EXP 2 MM
Posts: 2,823
Nope, that's not the case, as the regulation state with an "or"'
A good travel agent will either build a single itinerary (PNR) with all segments in it, issuing both, separate, tickets from it (segment select), or build the downstream itinerary adding a "YK" inbound segment to it, annotating its ticket number etc, before issuing the APD-exempt ticket from it.
Either way meet this requirement.
A good travel agent will either build a single itinerary (PNR) with all segments in it, issuing both, separate, tickets from it (segment select), or build the downstream itinerary adding a "YK" inbound segment to it, annotating its ticket number etc, before issuing the APD-exempt ticket from it.
Either way meet this requirement.
Is a YK segment an "inactive" copy of the segment in the other PNR?
Jul 30, 2012, 10:52 am
#305
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
I also just thought of fraud prevention when AA can't verify the veracity of the inbound ticket; I can see people PhotoShopping fake e-receipts in order to avoid the APD, and AA ending up holding the bag. A travel agent generally has issued both tickets or will accept an e-receipt from a longtime customer they trust is not committing fraud.
Jul 30, 2012, 10:53 am
#306
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Yes. It's used to produce invoice/itinerary documents and may also be used for other record keeping purposes. Some airlines (like AA) also use them for checking bags through onto a connection that's on other PNRs, for example.
Jul 30, 2012, 2:30 pm
#307
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Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,670
No it doesn't; the "or" only occurs within the section detailing requirements of a conjunction ticket , not as a separate option
It states clearly
The connected flights must be detailed on the same ticket or conjunction tickets to qualify for the exemption
Same ticket : No problem
Conjunction tickets : It must also meet one of the 2 criteria specified
Just having an information segment will not conjoin 2 unrelated tickets , they are still 2 separate tickets.
From "IATA general conditions of carriage"
A conjunction ticket means a ticket issued to a passenger in conjunction with another ticket which together constitute a single contract of carriage
( a copy at http://www.transportrecht.de/transpo...1145517747.pdf or , if happy to read a spreadsheet there is one on the IATA website http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/passeng...y-of-terms.xls )
Where the 2 tickets have been sold separately, they can never form a single contract; each has its own
It states clearly
The connected flights must be detailed on the same ticket or conjunction tickets to qualify for the exemption
Same ticket : No problem
Conjunction tickets : It must also meet one of the 2 criteria specified
Just having an information segment will not conjoin 2 unrelated tickets , they are still 2 separate tickets.
From "IATA general conditions of carriage"
A conjunction ticket means a ticket issued to a passenger in conjunction with another ticket which together constitute a single contract of carriage
( a copy at http://www.transportrecht.de/transpo...1145517747.pdf or , if happy to read a spreadsheet there is one on the IATA website http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/passeng...y-of-terms.xls )
Where the 2 tickets have been sold separately, they can never form a single contract; each has its own
Last edited by Dave Noble; Jul 30, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Aug 25, 2012, 1:24 am
#308
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RBKC
Programs: AA EXP and Eurostar Carte Blanche
Posts: 3,855
Refund of APD for canceled itinerary?
A colleague did not fly her roundtrip LHR-BOS-LHR itinerary a few months ago (purchased on aa.com, all on AA metal). Canceled the nonrefundable ticket before departure.
Now want to apply the residual value of the old ticket to a new reservation (minus the change fee, of course).
The old ticket used eVIPs both ways (Y to J), so extra APD was payable out of LHR. The new ticket is in Y, not using any eVIPs.
When I called AA today to apply the residual value of the old ticket to the new reservation that was on hold, I was told that the extra APD which was paid alongside the old ticket's eVIP is not refundable, as it has already been sent to the British government.
It's not a huge amount of money, so no big deal, but just wondering if this sounds correct? I have been able to have taxes refunded in the past, but I've never tried with the APD specifically, when the flight was not flown. Should my colleague be able to get the eVIP APD back if the new reservation is in Y?
Now want to apply the residual value of the old ticket to a new reservation (minus the change fee, of course).
The old ticket used eVIPs both ways (Y to J), so extra APD was payable out of LHR. The new ticket is in Y, not using any eVIPs.
When I called AA today to apply the residual value of the old ticket to the new reservation that was on hold, I was told that the extra APD which was paid alongside the old ticket's eVIP is not refundable, as it has already been sent to the British government.
It's not a huge amount of money, so no big deal, but just wondering if this sounds correct? I have been able to have taxes refunded in the past, but I've never tried with the APD specifically, when the flight was not flown. Should my colleague be able to get the eVIP APD back if the new reservation is in Y?
Aug 25, 2012, 1:46 am
#309
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Signatures
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London, England
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Posts: 9,765
A colleague did not fly her roundtrip LHR-BOS-LHR itinerary a few months ago (purchased on aa.com, all on AA metal). Canceled the nonrefundable ticket before departure.
Now want to apply the residual value of the old ticket to a new reservation (minus the change fee, of course).
The old ticket used eVIPs both ways (Y to J), so extra APD was payable out of LHR. The new ticket is in Y, not using any eVIPs.
When I called AA today to apply the residual value of the old ticket to the new reservation that was on hold, I was told that the extra APD which was paid alongside the old ticket's eVIP is not refundable, as it has already been sent to the British government.
It's not a huge amount of money, so no big deal, but just wondering if this sounds correct? I have been able to have taxes refunded in the past, but I've never tried with the APD specifically, when the flight was not flown. Should my colleague be able to get the eVIP APD back if the new reservation is in Y?
Now want to apply the residual value of the old ticket to a new reservation (minus the change fee, of course).
The old ticket used eVIPs both ways (Y to J), so extra APD was payable out of LHR. The new ticket is in Y, not using any eVIPs.
When I called AA today to apply the residual value of the old ticket to the new reservation that was on hold, I was told that the extra APD which was paid alongside the old ticket's eVIP is not refundable, as it has already been sent to the British government.
It's not a huge amount of money, so no big deal, but just wondering if this sounds correct? I have been able to have taxes refunded in the past, but I've never tried with the APD specifically, when the flight was not flown. Should my colleague be able to get the eVIP APD back if the new reservation is in Y?
Perhaps the agent didn't understand how it works? I'd submit a refund request for the ticket number associated with the SWU upgrade and see what happens. From where I sit, you should be owed that money back.In fact, the original ticket minus the $150 change fee would have included the "reduced" rate of APD, which would have been included as part of the residual value offered on the unused ticket (it is generally equal to the amount of extra APD owed when an upgrade clears). So if they offered you residual value minus only the change fee, and didn't keep that portion of the APD, they shouldn't keep the added portion either.
Aug 25, 2012, 6:55 am
#310
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: AA MM PP, MR LT Plat, Globalist
Posts: 1,006
I booked a separate AY ticket entering LHR within 24 hours of my business flight departing LHR (SWU upgraded). When the upgrade hit, I was charged the APD. I then called AA to explain my case and give them my AY ticket #. In the end, I was "refunded"--i.e. issued a paper voucher for the amount of the APD.
I think the AA agent could see my AY ticket due to AY being part of OW.
Also, I believe the agent had to reissue my upgraded ticket. After she issued me the new ticket, I had to reconfirm seats and print a new boarding pass.
I think the AA agent could see my AY ticket due to AY being part of OW.
Also, I believe the agent had to reissue my upgraded ticket. After she issued me the new ticket, I had to reconfirm seats and print a new boarding pass.
Aug 25, 2012, 8:06 am
#311
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I booked a separate AY ticket entering LHR within 24 hours of my business flight departing LHR (SWU upgraded). When the upgrade hit, I was charged the APD. I then called AA to explain my case and give them my AY ticket #. In the end, I was "refunded"--i.e. issued a paper voucher for the amount of the APD.
I think the AA agent could see my AY ticket due to AY being part of OW.
I think the AA agent could see my AY ticket due to AY being part of OW.
Thanks for reporting.
Cheers.
Aug 25, 2012, 12:38 pm
#312
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Signatures
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I booked a separate AY ticket entering LHR within 24 hours of my business flight departing LHR (SWU upgraded). When the upgrade hit, I was charged the APD. I then called AA to explain my case and give them my AY ticket #. In the end, I was "refunded"--i.e. issued a paper voucher for the amount of the APD.
Sep 6, 2012, 9:29 am
#313
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Austin
Programs: AA EXP +2MM- LT PLT! HH Diamond
Posts: 6,090
Inside 24 Hr UK Transfer- Separate PRN's- Avoiding ADP
This is just an FYI.. I have booked some travel where I have separate Record Locators for the TATL and then our intra-Europe flights (saved a ton of $$'s). Since we have upgrades on the return TATL flight from LHR, they charged the ADP in advance.
I called the EXP Desk to see if there was anything we could do to get it refunded if we had proof of arriving into the UK and departing inside the 24hr period that triggers the ADP.. And yes there is!
We basically provided them our e-ticket numbers of the inbound flight (luckily on another OW carrier), they were able to confirm the timing and updated our records to reflect the information. The only hitch is we need to call them again within 72hrs of the arriving flight to LHR when we do travel, so as to prove no changes have happened to our itinerary and arrival time. But it's cash back, nevertheless!
). Since we have upgrades on the return TATL flight from LHR, they charged the ADP in advance. I called the EXP Desk to see if there was anything we could do to get it refunded if we had proof of arriving into the UK and departing inside the 24hr period that triggers the ADP.. And yes there is!
We basically provided them our e-ticket numbers of the inbound flight (luckily on another OW carrier), they were able to confirm the timing and updated our records to reflect the information. The only hitch is we need to call them again within 72hrs of the arriving flight to LHR when we do travel, so as to prove no changes have happened to our itinerary and arrival time. But it's cash back, nevertheless!
Last edited by teemuflyer; Sep 6, 2012 at 9:30 am Reason: meant to say Record Locators, not PRNs, although both are true
Sep 6, 2012, 9:42 am
#314
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: AA LT PLT; HH Diamond; AS 75K
Posts: 2,881
This is just an FYI.. I have booked some travel where I have separate Record Locators for the TATL and then our intra-Europe flights (saved a ton of $$'s). Since we have upgrades on the return TATL flight from LHR, they charged the ADP in advance.
I called the EXP Desk to see if there was anything we could do to get it refunded if we had proof of arriving into the UK and departing inside the 24hr period that triggers the ADP.. And yes there is!
We basically provided them our e-ticket numbers of the inbound flight (luckily on another OW carrier), they were able to confirm the timing and updated our records to reflect the information. The only hitch is we need to call them again within 72hrs of the arriving flight to LHR when we do travel, so as to prove no changes have happened to our itinerary and arrival time. But it's cash back, nevertheless!
). Since we have upgrades on the return TATL flight from LHR, they charged the ADP in advance. I called the EXP Desk to see if there was anything we could do to get it refunded if we had proof of arriving into the UK and departing inside the 24hr period that triggers the ADP.. And yes there is!
We basically provided them our e-ticket numbers of the inbound flight (luckily on another OW carrier), they were able to confirm the timing and updated our records to reflect the information. The only hitch is we need to call them again within 72hrs of the arriving flight to LHR when we do travel, so as to prove no changes have happened to our itinerary and arrival time. But it's cash back, nevertheless!
Sep 6, 2012, 10:09 am
#315
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Signatures
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London, England
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador, National Exec, AA EXP Emeritus
Posts: 9,765
This is just an FYI.. I have booked some travel where I have separate Record Locators for the TATL and then our intra-Europe flights (saved a ton of $$'s). Since we have upgrades on the return TATL flight from LHR, they charged the ADP in advance.
I called the EXP Desk to see if there was anything we could do to get it refunded if we had proof of arriving into the UK and departing inside the 24hr period that triggers the ADP.. And yes there is!
We basically provided them our e-ticket numbers of the inbound flight (luckily on another OW carrier), they were able to confirm the timing and updated our records to reflect the information. The only hitch is we need to call them again within 72hrs of the arriving flight to LHR when we do travel, so as to prove no changes have happened to our itinerary and arrival time. But it's cash back, nevertheless!
). Since we have upgrades on the return TATL flight from LHR, they charged the ADP in advance. I called the EXP Desk to see if there was anything we could do to get it refunded if we had proof of arriving into the UK and departing inside the 24hr period that triggers the ADP.. And yes there is!
We basically provided them our e-ticket numbers of the inbound flight (luckily on another OW carrier), they were able to confirm the timing and updated our records to reflect the information. The only hitch is we need to call them again within 72hrs of the arriving flight to LHR when we do travel, so as to prove no changes have happened to our itinerary and arrival time. But it's cash back, nevertheless!
Two other points of note:
- You're referring to APD, not ADP
- You're referring to PNRs, not PRNs
~Moderator