Recline Seat for Nine Hours?
Oct 8, 2011, 1:44 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SFO, VCE
Programs: AA EXP >4 MM, Lifetime Plat
Posts: 2,881
Recline Seat for Nine Hours?
I am just trying to determine what the expectations are. Am ExPlat, 2 million plus miles, with a lot of overseas travel. AA is great because I am almost always upgraded. Last Sunday I flew Madrid to Dallas, and wasn't upgraded because it was sold out. I would have purchased a business class ticket prior to the sell-out had I known that, but I have always been upgraded on that flight.
This was a fairly late (6 weeks before) reservation. No exit rows were available. I was seated one row behind the exit row. As soon as the flight took off, before the wheels were up, the exit row passenger in front of me reclined back. So much for getting work done on my computer. It was in the afternoon, so it wasn't a question of sleeping.
I am over six feet tall, and this forced my knees either into the aisle, or up to my chest. I have had two operations on my left knee, one on my right. I have had deep vein thrombosis two times, with one episode
resulting in near fatal pulmonary emboli. Per recommendation from my doctors, I inject blood thinners into my abdmen before long flights.
It is necessary for me to move my legs frequently for exercise, and to
contract my calfs. The only problem was that we had nine hours to go, and the seat in front was crushing my knees. I moved my legs in and out of the aisle. When the FA came around with the beverage cart, the
guy in front of me, who had three feet of room in his exit row, complained that I was moving his seat too much by moving my knees. This was around 2:00 in the afternoon.
The FA left, came back, and said, "you are an exec-plat, and you fly a
lot, so you know the rules. He has the right to put his seat back into you." I said, "Sure, but since his seat has my knees pinned, and I need to move my legs, he's going to feel that movement. I'm not going to sit still and get a blood clot because he wants to lean back for the afternoon movie."
The FA said, "So, you don't agree to not moving his seat with your knees? Then I have to notify the purser." The purser came back and turned what had at least been a subdued conversation, into a spectacle. She asked, "Are you going to stop moving his seat? As an Exec Plat you know he has the right." I said, "I need to stretch, straighten, and move
my legs because the primary risk factor for a leg blood clot is having had
a previous one, and I've had two previous ones. Plus, three operations on my knees has made them painful, and I need to move them. I can't keep my knees up to my chest for nine hours."
Next thing I know, the purser said, "Since you refuse to comply I have to write you up, and let the captain know to see if he wants to go back and land." I was flabbergasted! I have well over 2 million miles on AA. Some sort of compromise could have been suggested, between me flying
knees to chin for nine hours (I was two rows from rest room, so feet in the aisles was not possible.), and the person in front of me who's exit row gave him nearly two free feet of space for his knees and who felt the need to maximize his comfort without respect for anyone else.
I remember flying in the days of smoking on planes, and practically having to sit on the floor to stay low and avoid smoke in order to breath. Since then, we've become more courteous and respectful of others' comforts. Is it time for the FA's to not only say that as a courtesy if you have two bags, put one under the seat so that your
neighbor has space for his or her bags for the SHARED space to also
say, "these planes are too small. If everyone has the same amount of
space, we can suffer together. But when you lean your seat back into another person's space, that person has no room. So let's be considerate of one another and not lean back into someone else's shared space.
I don't know what affect the FA's "writing me up" is going to have. On that flight I went over 100k for the umpteenth year in a row. Never had such a thing happen before.
This was a fairly late (6 weeks before) reservation. No exit rows were available. I was seated one row behind the exit row. As soon as the flight took off, before the wheels were up, the exit row passenger in front of me reclined back. So much for getting work done on my computer. It was in the afternoon, so it wasn't a question of sleeping.
I am over six feet tall, and this forced my knees either into the aisle, or up to my chest. I have had two operations on my left knee, one on my right. I have had deep vein thrombosis two times, with one episode
resulting in near fatal pulmonary emboli. Per recommendation from my doctors, I inject blood thinners into my abdmen before long flights.
It is necessary for me to move my legs frequently for exercise, and to
contract my calfs. The only problem was that we had nine hours to go, and the seat in front was crushing my knees. I moved my legs in and out of the aisle. When the FA came around with the beverage cart, the
guy in front of me, who had three feet of room in his exit row, complained that I was moving his seat too much by moving my knees. This was around 2:00 in the afternoon.
The FA left, came back, and said, "you are an exec-plat, and you fly a
lot, so you know the rules. He has the right to put his seat back into you." I said, "Sure, but since his seat has my knees pinned, and I need to move my legs, he's going to feel that movement. I'm not going to sit still and get a blood clot because he wants to lean back for the afternoon movie."
The FA said, "So, you don't agree to not moving his seat with your knees? Then I have to notify the purser." The purser came back and turned what had at least been a subdued conversation, into a spectacle. She asked, "Are you going to stop moving his seat? As an Exec Plat you know he has the right." I said, "I need to stretch, straighten, and move
my legs because the primary risk factor for a leg blood clot is having had
a previous one, and I've had two previous ones. Plus, three operations on my knees has made them painful, and I need to move them. I can't keep my knees up to my chest for nine hours."
Next thing I know, the purser said, "Since you refuse to comply I have to write you up, and let the captain know to see if he wants to go back and land." I was flabbergasted! I have well over 2 million miles on AA. Some sort of compromise could have been suggested, between me flying
knees to chin for nine hours (I was two rows from rest room, so feet in the aisles was not possible.), and the person in front of me who's exit row gave him nearly two free feet of space for his knees and who felt the need to maximize his comfort without respect for anyone else.
I remember flying in the days of smoking on planes, and practically having to sit on the floor to stay low and avoid smoke in order to breath. Since then, we've become more courteous and respectful of others' comforts. Is it time for the FA's to not only say that as a courtesy if you have two bags, put one under the seat so that your
neighbor has space for his or her bags for the SHARED space to also
say, "these planes are too small. If everyone has the same amount of
space, we can suffer together. But when you lean your seat back into another person's space, that person has no room. So let's be considerate of one another and not lean back into someone else's shared space.
I don't know what affect the FA's "writing me up" is going to have. On that flight I went over 100k for the umpteenth year in a row. Never had such a thing happen before.
Last edited by Perche; Oct 8, 2011 at 1:59 am
Oct 8, 2011, 2:21 am
#2
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
If you physically cannot fit in one seat, I believe you are supposed to buy two seats. That said, I am just under six feet and I can't imagine my knees knocking into the reclined seat in front of me unless it was on purpose. It may not have been comfortable, but I would not need to disturb the person in front of me to stretch.
It does sound like the situation was bad, but then again, the person in front of you has a right to recline and not have you keep pushing his seatback around. It sounds like you also made it clear you would going to continue to disturb that passenger.
In the future, you may want to have a note from your doctor and arrange for a bulkhead seat in advance. I have a friend who flies several times a year to Europe and she has a circulation problem. AA always has accommodated her in the bulkhead by making advance arrangements and having her medical condition noted in her PNR. @:-)
It does sound like the situation was bad, but then again, the person in front of you has a right to recline and not have you keep pushing his seatback around. It sounds like you also made it clear you would going to continue to disturb that passenger.
In the future, you may want to have a note from your doctor and arrange for a bulkhead seat in advance. I have a friend who flies several times a year to Europe and she has a circulation problem. AA always has accommodated her in the bulkhead by making advance arrangements and having her medical condition noted in her PNR. @:-)
Oct 8, 2011, 2:55 am
#3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hotlanta.
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Posts: 4,639
I'm also tall and I've never had this problem. Sounds like you created and escalated the problem.
If you need a better seat, then buy it. Don't rely on things being given to you.
If you need a better seat, then buy it. Don't rely on things being given to you.
Oct 8, 2011, 3:10 am
#4
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Given your medical history, and realizing the seating arrangements you were going to be facing on your selected flight, you really should have delayed your flying until suitable seating (an exit row in Y or a J seat) was available. No trip, no reason to travel, justifies risking your life. If you ignore risk factors in order to adhere to a schedule, then you must deal with the consequences. I'd much rather have you continue on FlyerTalk than have you dead (sorry if that's too blunt).
Oct 8, 2011, 3:55 am
#5
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Posts: 579
Sounds like a pissing contest and you lost.
Everyone on the plane have a right to comfort
Perhaps the passenger in front of you had an issue too let's say a back issue that sitting upright in a plane for 9 hours does not help.
Could you not move ( assuming coach was not full)?
I agree if the seat reclines the person has the right to recline.
Everyone on the plane have a right to comfort
Perhaps the passenger in front of you had an issue too let's say a back issue that sitting upright in a plane for 9 hours does not help.
Could you not move ( assuming coach was not full)?
I agree if the seat reclines the person has the right to recline.
Oct 8, 2011, 4:03 am
#6
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 48
To the OP: Did YOU recline your seat? If yes, then you were just as inconsiderate.
and if you didn't, then you should have, so you wont have your "knees to your chest" as you so dramatically put it. Either way you have only yourself to blame.
and if you didn't, then you should have, so you wont have your "knees to your chest" as you so dramatically put it. Either way you have only yourself to blame.
Oct 8, 2011, 4:20 am
#7
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Re: "The FA said, "So, you don't agree to not moving his seat with your knees? Then I have to notify the purser." The purser came back and turned what had at least been a subdued conversation, into a spectacle. She asked, "Are you going to stop moving his seat? As an Exec Plat you know he has the right."
The first conversation was subdued and you were asked to not move the person 's seat. If the tone was raised after your refusal to obey a subdued tone, then it sounds like it was justified.
There is no rule against reclining a seat. After all, that is what it is there for.
I suspect you problem was your inability to use your computer, rather than the story about your knees having nowhere else to go. You don't get to choose when someone reclines. And, just because he reclined early does not mean he was going to be reclined for all of the flight.
I can't believe you have never experienced people reclining before.
Do you never recline?
The first conversation was subdued and you were asked to not move the person 's seat. If the tone was raised after your refusal to obey a subdued tone, then it sounds like it was justified.
There is no rule against reclining a seat. After all, that is what it is there for.
I suspect you problem was your inability to use your computer, rather than the story about your knees having nowhere else to go. You don't get to choose when someone reclines. And, just because he reclined early does not mean he was going to be reclined for all of the flight.
I can't believe you have never experienced people reclining before.
Do you never recline?
Oct 8, 2011, 4:33 am
#8
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Oct 8, 2011, 4:50 am
#9
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,706
It sounds like an aggressive act to try and make it uncomfortable for the person in front who dared to want to recline his seat
You were asked to stop doing it and refused making some inane comment about "knees being in chest" . If you are incapable of flying in economy , then you need to ensure that you travel in business or 1st class ; if you need to move around, then go for a walk round the cabin
You were asked to stop doing it and refused making some inane comment about "knees being in chest" . If you are incapable of flying in economy , then you need to ensure that you travel in business or 1st class ; if you need to move around, then go for a walk round the cabin
Oct 8, 2011, 5:47 am
#10
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fairfield County, CT USA
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Posts: 4,077
When the first FA goes to get a supervisor, you should stand down. You won't win on the plane...no matter how correct you think you might be.
Suffer the "injustice" and use your pen afterwards.
Suffer the "injustice" and use your pen afterwards.
Oct 8, 2011, 6:24 am
#11
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I dont think someone else's problems should affect someone elses right to a comfortable flight as long as its within the rules to do so
Oct 8, 2011, 6:56 am
#12
Join Date: Nov 2002
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I'm surprised by all these responses...regardless of what one is "entitled" to, it seems like common courtesy to me to respect the needs of other people on the plane. if I were sitting in an exit row and were aware that the person behind me was very tall, I would be happy to keep my seat upright. This is not about "rights", it is about treating others as you'd like to be treated yourself in a similar situation.
(And I can easily see how it could be difficult to avoid hitting the seat in front when moving around. I'm 5'8" and often find it difficult to move when the seat in front is reclined without hitting the seat -- I'd imagine it would be much worse for someone taller.)
(And I can easily see how it could be difficult to avoid hitting the seat in front when moving around. I'm 5'8" and often find it difficult to move when the seat in front is reclined without hitting the seat -- I'd imagine it would be much worse for someone taller.)
Oct 8, 2011, 7:14 am
#14
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 526
OP you are correct regardless of what all these AA boosters write.
I think one of the reasons flying has become such a nightmare is that there is so little courtesy out there---starting with the airlines and on down to the passengers.
This is increased by the small size of the area where everyone is seated.
I am also tall---and I would never fly coach unless I have an exit row seat if I am on a flight over 2 hours.
I realize sometimes there are exceptions.
My knees hit the seat in front of me even before the seat in front of me reclines so most of the posters here have no idea what it is like to be tall and show their ignorance on top of their lack of courtesy--and you wonder why flying is what it is?
One suggestion---I purchased something many years ago for cases if I am stuck in coach--it blocks the seat in front of me from reclining.
I know it is frowned upon but sometimes you do what you got to do.
I think one of the reasons flying has become such a nightmare is that there is so little courtesy out there---starting with the airlines and on down to the passengers.
This is increased by the small size of the area where everyone is seated.
I am also tall---and I would never fly coach unless I have an exit row seat if I am on a flight over 2 hours.
I realize sometimes there are exceptions.
My knees hit the seat in front of me even before the seat in front of me reclines so most of the posters here have no idea what it is like to be tall and show their ignorance on top of their lack of courtesy--and you wonder why flying is what it is?
One suggestion---I purchased something many years ago for cases if I am stuck in coach--it blocks the seat in front of me from reclining.
I know it is frowned upon but sometimes you do what you got to do.
Oct 8, 2011, 7:24 am
#15
Join Date: Nov 2008
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The guy in front of you bought an economy seat that reclines and has a published amount of legroom. You did the same. You can't expect him to go without something he has paid for because you bought a ticket for a seat you don't fit in.
Get over it...
Get over it...