Armchair Flyer

Creber's posts pretty much sum up my experiences and views, except that I find the bus transfers interminable.

The crux is that it doesn't have to be that way, as creber says. Some of the problems really are low hanging fruit to solve, and they are things that function perfectly well in other major EU airports but not at CDG where getting the basics right seems an impossible task. Things like checking your boarding pass 5 times is just as unneccesary as it is irritating for example....

There is no need for this torture, someone (or something) just needs to grasp some of these issues warmly and deal with them.

Sim

San Gottardo

One more, specific to T1:

change the information screens to show expected departure time for delayed flights. Currently, when a flight is delayed it only says "delayed" - without saying whether it's 10 minutes or 4 hours late.

Quite a hassle, and easy to avoid as well.

Armchair Flyer

Some timely and appropriate recommendations with regards the inadmissible « embarquement/desembarquement effectué par bus » service:

A.Dismiss the person in control of all the bus drivers and hire someone competent
B. Dismiss the vast majority of the current drivers on the grounds of “incompatibility with the job” (see below) and hire new ones who want to do the job professionally
C.Install a compulsory “dress code” for drivers much as exists at other airports
D.Issue all the new and remaining old drivers with the following “10 Commandments”

1.You are an important part of the service provided to paying passengers by ADP and AF. We expect impeccable behaviour and professionalism in carrying out your duties because this directly impacts customer perception and the overall customer experience by which AF and ADP are judged.
2.Don’t eat/drink/ play on your computer/play computer games/read the newspaper in the cab/spit out of the door/window of the cab at any time and especially whilst picking up pax from the terminals. They can see what you’re (not) doing, it looks slovenly and lazy, gives completely the wrong impression, spitting is revolting, and all of the activities herein are considered unprofessional
3.Remember that you’re transporting members of the public, that you have a duty of care, and that you’re providing a customer service.
4.Have some basic pride in your appearance. Don’t turn up to work unkempt, dirty or (if you don’t have a beard) unshaven. It looks sloppy and it’s unprofessional
5.Wear the PPE issued to you. Pax have to abide by the rules of the airport, so do you
6.If a passenger speaks to you and wishes you a “bonne whatever time of the day it is”, have the common courtesy to reply. Don’t just grunt, or (even worse) ignore tha pax by saying nothing at all. It’s unprofessional. Alternatively, make the effort and wish the passenger a “bonne whatever time of the day it is” yourself when they get on/off the bus.
7.When transporting pax to and from the plane, don’t chat up the attractive AF ground services dollybird sitting next to you in the cab. The pax can see you paying more attention to her than you are paying towards their own safe transportation and wellbeing, and it’s unprofessional.
8.If you do get into a remonstration with a pax, remember that the customer is always right even though the customer may well be wrong. Don’t be aggressive and confrontational, it’s unprofessional.
9.When dropping off the pax at either the plane or the terminal, don’t play games with the pax, deciding to have a little giggle as to which door you are going to open to let them out. Always use the door in the front/middle/rear. Remember that the pax are not on the bus for your personal entertainment, if anything you are driving the bus for theirs.
10.Smile! It costs nothing, counts for a lot, and goes some way to creating a positive impression.

San Gottardo

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8310/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/130)

True, true.

May I add two for the bus wishing list:

1. Know where you're going. Don't drop off Schengen pax at a non-Schengen door or vice versa. Hell for them to get their luggage afterwards or having to stand in line at immigration for nothing.
2. When it's raining, drive the bus as close to the aircraft stairs as you can, instead of dropping pax at the rear end of the plane only to let them walk to the front end through the pouring rain.

Other than that, Sim, I believe that all our calls for professional and polite behaviour will be perceived as fundamental changes to the "conditions de travail". Implementing them will cost us at least six days of strike for each one of the points you make.

So I guess we'll have to stick with "Favela Tours".

nicolas75

Would you mean through the door?
This is financial crisis, but don't be afraid. At CDG, you will not have to walk through the poors waiting for you to take your money until some couple of days

San Gottardo

Oops, I of course meant to write "pour", as in pouring rain. Edited my post. Thanks for pointing it out.

San Gottardo

CDG needs to dramatically improve the way it deals with handicapped and reduced mobility pax.

I have posted a trip report where I compared by experience at several European (and one Middle Eastern) airports and airlines.

Whilst most airports can make sure that a pax actually reaches its flight without too much complication, at CDG passengers risk missing their flights because of poor organization.

Read here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...ferrerid=59414

Armchair Flyer

I flew out of 2D on Monday of this week, arriving at 06h35 for a flight leaving at 07h25 so one would normally assume with enough time to get to the boarding gate for an 07h05 last call for boarding, especially as a Plat with access to the "Acces No1" line

It transpires that Sim was indeed Simple Sim that day. What I totally forgot to take into account (since I have been doing my best to avoid spending any money whatsoever with AF by using *A where possible) that terminal 2 is of course ADP and AF territory at its' most bumblingly incompetent.

What I encountered was the bordel of the century (or in the case of 2D probably no more that the bordel of the day). Around 300+ people trying to scrum their way through security to get to the boarding gates. No problem I thought, I'll saunter down to Access No 1.

Er, no. Some bright spark had decided that Access No 1 had to be used for a flight to Athens due to increased security. Now, I'm all for increased security but, dear friends at ADP and AF: How about having a contingency plan that a) deals with such occurrences without throwing the entire landside operation of 2D into a complete shambles and b) manages to get 300+ people through security quickly and efficiently so that it does not knock on to airside operations to the extent that aircraft can't depart on time?

Again, I'm writing this again ignoring that this is ADP and AF. Dealing with what I've written in the paragraph above has so far proven to be way beyond their capabilities. So as with much if not most of the well intentioned advice we write on this forum designed to help improve things, it'll get ignored. The recommendation therefore is simple: where possible, avoid 2D, and certainly on Monday mornings.

Allez~

Sim

P.s. On getting airside I also then had the dreaded "embarquement par bus" and the delightful bus driver chappie chose not to adhere to numbers 1,2 or 10 of my suggested driver code of conduct....I'll leave that there........

San Gottardo

I was there, too, on Monday. A bit later though, for a 09h50 departure no "because of Athens screening here we create chaos elsewhere" bordel, I guess I just missed that. Still long waits including at Accès No. 1. Much better on Tuesday morning though, for an 08h15 departure.

But thanks for reminding me of this thread, because I have a point that starts driving me nuts, and I would like to phrase it in the same terms as your "bus driver wish list":

A. Dismiss the person responsible for security controls at T1.
B. Dismiss all the staff working at security control at T1 whose manners are insufficient for being in contact with civilized members of the human race and/or whose IQ is below 60.
C. Open all three tunnels leading from departure level to "satellite access" level, not just one.
D. Always open all security lanes in satellites. It doesn't need a queue of more than 50 people to justify opening of a new lane. Worst that could happen would be security agents having some idle time, but they don't seem to eager anyway, so that should be a win-win

For those employees that meet the criteria set in B (no-one working at the entrance of the tunnels leaving from departure hall to satellite access level meets them; a fair number at the security filters in the satellites actually do), the following things should be taught:

1. Make it as least unpleasant for pax as possible. We all understand you are just fulfilling a legal obligation, but there are ways to make this pleasant and fast for pax, and there are ways to make this lengthy and unpleasant. There's no reason to go for lengthy and unpleasant. It will not improve security.
2. Speed up your overall pace of work and processing. Passengers pass through here because they have a plane to catch. If they have spare time, they'll want to spend it doing something pleasant or useful, in the lounge, in the shops, at the bar. But not at security control. Some of you may come from cultures where "time" has a different meaning and "hurry" doesn't exist, but few people here will care.
3. Speak English when needed. Shouting at a pax in French and threatening to call the police if he doesn't obey doesn't get you very far. It's stupid and impolite.
4. Do some basic line management. Some pax are not frequent users of airports, so ushering them to un- oder under-used lanes may speed the overall process. Don't just stand there and stare idly at them waiting. Also, when there's a line that says "reserved for people requiring special assistance and those departing within 20 mins", make sure it is respected. The entrance of that line would be a good point to make your BP checks, since you do them anyway.
5. Be sensible, ask only for things to be taken out of bags that make sense. "PC" is standards, "and all cables" is bullocks.
6. Be respectful of people's needs. Asking a wheel-chaired passenger with a casted leg to take off the cast is inappropriate. Sure, he could be hiding something in his cast, but he could also have swallowed an explosive. You are not going to rip out his stomach to check, so you can just as well use your sophisticated material to check whether there's something dangerous hidden in the cast.
7. Wash. You are in close touch with people. Basic hygiene such as showering before coming to work and using deodorant should be normal.
8. When discussing with a passenger, behave. Immediately shouting at him, pushing him, using "tu" instead of "vous" - completely inappropriate, especially if the pax is calm.
9. If you are frustrated because your life is a failure, don't prep up your ego by showing to pax all the powers that you have, including strip-searching them for no reason, unpacking all their luggage at slow speed, making them miss their flight, talking to them in a brash manner. If your life is a failure, it's not pax' fault. Get drunk, jump down a bridge, beat your wife or listen to Cliff Richard - whatever. But leave the pax out of the game.
10. Clear away empty bins from the X-ray line rather then having them pile up at the end of the "conveyor belt". Pax are 100% busy getting re-assembled after having taken off their shoes, belts, jackets and having unpacked their belongings. Hearing you complaining loudly that none of the pax put away their bins is unprofessional. All over the world security staff take the initiative to clear away the bins so as not to have them pile into each other and sandwich handbags and briefcases lying between them.
11. Be respectful with people's belongings. Some people have handbags, briefcases or other pieces of hand luggage that they care about and/or that are fragile, for instance made of leather. They are built to resist normal usage, but not being thrown on the belt or squeezed between bins (see 10.). When a gentleman asks for permission to put his bag into a bin, don't take it out. There's no reason why ladies' handbags should be put into bins, but gentlemen's briefcases are not allowed to.
12. Don't try to be smarta$$es. When you are again taking 15 minutes just to open a zipper or spending time showing to all your colleagues this bizarre thing you have never seen in your life and organizing a little trivia game about what it could be (it's a shoe tree) and pax reminds you that he actually needs to go on and take his plane, don't give responses like "You just need to get up earlier" or "Just take a train". No, you just do your work swiftly and understanding that even security control is a service job. Smarta$$ answers never work from you, because, as the word implies, it takes smartness. See criteria B for a minimum IQ requirement.

I understand the need for security and I am all for security. But I do not follow the reasoning of these people that the way they're working is required by European law or improving security. Numerous examples from other airports working under the same rules are living prove.

Malonda

creber, you've made my day!

My favorite one:Thanks again,
Malonda

San Gottardo

Poor you. You must have a horrible day if a description of CDG security makes your day

Anyways, enough of it. I'll retire for the day, two times through CDG plus one Air France flight just in one day are too much to stomach even for a brave man like me. It's like waterboarding in Diet Coke with insults shouted in Dutch and German folk music playing in the background and a smell of Marmite in the air.

Armchair Flyer

A very appropriate post Creber! The power-tripping trolls on security fully merit the points and comments you have raised. Why oh why do we continue to pay to put up with this abuse? Are these people immune and exempt from employee disciplinary procedures?

As for Malonda's post: well yep here we are again in high BO season. Enter and board at your peril. If you escape being confronted by ADP/Brinks/Securitas staff who decline to use under arm frangrance of any sort and thus positively hum to the point it makes your eyes water, you will undoubtedly find yourself seated in the proximity of a pax who gets nicely installed, removes jacket and then infuses the surrounding 10 rows with the most pungent "au naturel" odour that would put mustard gas a distant second.

Have these such people heard of anti-perspirant?

Cheers

Sim

San Gottardo

Hilarious post ^

Yes they are. I was actually thinking about making a point 13) which would have been along the lines of "Thank your union and your "mafia". Without them you wouldn't have a job, and without their protection you wouldn't stay in it"

Seriously: I have no problem whatsoever for ADP and the firms to whom they outsource to favour the employment of people with certain profiles. There is - rightly or wrongly - an economic pressure to employ people whose salary expectations aren't very high, and it's laudable to open up horizons of employment to people that otherwise would have more difficulties on the job market. BUT this form of what is actually some sort of positive discrimination - as acceptable and laudable as it may be - should *not* be done at the expense of professionalism, attitude, basic manners and hygiene. Shouting in an inappropriate manner at pax disqualifies anyone for the job. His background, however difficult it may be, cannot be an excuse/justification/compensation for unprofessional behaviour. The common excuse of "but pax are horrible and aggressive" doesn't count. The pax are the same as elsewhere (logically...), however elsewhere they don't get treated that way.

Henry III

Sticking with the actual title of this thread, maybe CDG needs somebody in control with (a) the organisational skills of the Swiss and (b) considerable experience arriving at/departing from/transiting through CDG and other, comparably large airports.

Know anyone who fits this description, creber?

JOUY31

Why use Terminal 1 Joking.