Airlines can charge obese pax for 2 seats
Dec 18, 2000, 12:27 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 987
Dec 18, 2000, 12:30 am
#2
In memoriam
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,697
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/001410.html where it belongs. 
Dec 18, 2000, 12:32 pm
#5
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Missoula, MT
Programs: United 1P
Posts: 363
So, are airlines charging per person or per seat ?? If it is per seat, then let's see how many of us we can cram into a seat !!
If the issue is inconveniencing the person next to you, then will the poor parent with the crying, squirming, vomiting baby have to buy an empty seat on either side, too ??
If the issue is inconveniencing the person next to you, then will the poor parent with the crying, squirming, vomiting baby have to buy an empty seat on either side, too ??
Dec 18, 2000, 1:44 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: FTFOE
Programs: TalkBoard: We discuss / ad nauseum things that mean / so very little
Posts: 10,225
I think we had a court case of the exact same nature here in Canada where the ruling went the other way. It was very recent, but I don't know any details.
FewMiles..
------------------
Unofficial Guide to AAdvantage: http://home.webflyer.com/fewmiles/AA/
FewMiles..
------------------
Unofficial Guide to AAdvantage: http://home.webflyer.com/fewmiles/AA/
Dec 18, 2000, 2:53 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 987
Originally posted by Wombat18:
So, are airlines charging per person or per seat ?? If it is per seat, then let's see how many of us we can cram into a seat !!
If the issue is inconveniencing the person next to you, then will the poor parent with the crying, squirming, vomiting baby have to buy an empty seat on either side, too ??
So, are airlines charging per person or per seat ?? If it is per seat, then let's see how many of us we can cram into a seat !!
If the issue is inconveniencing the person next to you, then will the poor parent with the crying, squirming, vomiting baby have to buy an empty seat on either side, too ??
(ducks behind desk to avoid not my baby wraith)
Dec 18, 2000, 6:25 pm
#10
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: MCI. AA Plat, UA PrmEx., Mrrtt Gold, Hz Pres.Circle, HHonors Gold
Posts: 1,070
Aside from tmorse's utterly tasteless comment, I tend to agree with the ruling. If I have seat 12B and the passenger in seat 12A is occupying 1 1/2 seats, then I'm sort of in a pickle. If it's a half-empty flight - no big deal - I just go sit somewhere else. But if it's a full flight, then somebody has to get off the plane, resulting in lost revenue for the airline (and possibly an unhappy customer).
I know it sounds sort of mean, but can anyone think of a better solution?
If the law forced the airline to give the seat away for free, then we'd have chaos (I'm fairly tall, and could easily take up two seats if I had to!).
I know it sounds sort of mean, but can anyone think of a better solution?
If the law forced the airline to give the seat away for free, then we'd have chaos (I'm fairly tall, and could easily take up two seats if I had to!).
Dec 18, 2000, 7:23 pm
#11
Join Date: Aug 2000
Programs: I am an AS employee, but my comments do not represent the company in any official capacity.
Posts: 4,343
You might think that Tmorse learned a lesson here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/001393.html
But if you thought that, you'd be wrong.
But if you thought that, you'd be wrong.
Dec 18, 2000, 8:23 pm
#12
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Santa Cruz, CA USA
Programs: AA, UA, WN, HH, Marriott
Posts: 7,290
This is one of those complex situations where there is no simple answer - the answer depends on your perspective. It is a classic type problem law students struggle with all the time - e.g., if you have an apple tree with a branch that hangs over your neighbor's lawn and an apple falls onto your neighbor's property, who owns the apple?
Are you selling a seat or passage to an individual? Wombat18 posed the dilemma perfectly. The answer, and the basis of the complexity, in my opinion, is that it is both. On aircraft with F and Y or F, C, and Y you are clearly selling a particular type of seat in addition to passage.
But airlines make exceptions to the one person/one seat/one fare all the time. What about the case where you can buy a seat for an infant at half-price (1 seat/1 person/half price). Or discounts for children or for seniors. Or as has already been pointed out above, carry a baby on your lap (2 persons/1 seat/1 fare).
What is "fair" and "reasonable" is not an easy answer. If an individual is too large to fit in a coach seat, perhaps a compromise would be to give them a 50% discount on the second seat.
Are you selling a seat or passage to an individual? Wombat18 posed the dilemma perfectly. The answer, and the basis of the complexity, in my opinion, is that it is both. On aircraft with F and Y or F, C, and Y you are clearly selling a particular type of seat in addition to passage.
But airlines make exceptions to the one person/one seat/one fare all the time. What about the case where you can buy a seat for an infant at half-price (1 seat/1 person/half price). Or discounts for children or for seniors. Or as has already been pointed out above, carry a baby on your lap (2 persons/1 seat/1 fare).
What is "fair" and "reasonable" is not an easy answer. If an individual is too large to fit in a coach seat, perhaps a compromise would be to give them a 50% discount on the second seat.
Dec 18, 2000, 8:50 pm
#13
Join Date: Aug 2000
Programs: I am an AS employee, but my comments do not represent the company in any official capacity.
Posts: 4,343
I don't completely agree with you Jerry, but your post is most diplomatic and I appreciate the fact that you make a strong case without being offensive. I would imagine that many other FT'ers here would second that.
-levi
-levi
Dec 18, 2000, 8:57 pm
#14
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Tokyo, Japan (or Vienna whenever possible)
Posts: 6,379
I see this kind of discussion and I think immediately...Marketing Opportunity.
Just think, how many points would you score with a group of passengers who probably (I am guessing) feel at times frustrated, biased against, embarrassed, etc. unjustly because of their size. Through excessive eating, genes, or whatever reason, they (i.e. all people who may need a bit more space than that provided by the airlines in a standard seat) need to be treated with the same consideration as any other passenger.
If an airline can prioritize to whom it offers an alterante seat on the same or different flight they can win some very good favor with both the larger person and the person seated next to them. I think a fair prioitization system would be who boarded first. It seems fair that if you board earlier you have the first shot at overhead bins so why not use the same process to figure out to whom you will offer an alternative.
If I were offered a seat on another flight that did not hurt my schedule, possibly accompanied by a minimal voucher or a bottle of wine, I would jump at it. If the larger person (I hope that is the right term) were the one offered the alternative due to being the later one to board, they would probably feel good about being offered a choice. If either party declines the offer, well, they have been dealt with to the best ability of the airline.
The airline is in a win-win situation. They have made an attempt which will in all likelihood be well regarded by both parties and will almost certainly guarantee themselves a repeat customer. Offering a standardized product to human beings makes for many possible scenarios. This is but one, but certainly one which could be used efficiently by the airline to become known as creative and positive in dealing with seating situations. United does a fair job internationally on the routes I frequent and there are far fewer alterante flights on these routes than on many domestic ones in North America.
Problem,...Potentially. Marketing potential...absolutely. Easy,...heck no!
Just a ramble based on an experience I had last week that was resolved very smoothly by a UA crew from SIN/NRT.
Mike
Just think, how many points would you score with a group of passengers who probably (I am guessing) feel at times frustrated, biased against, embarrassed, etc. unjustly because of their size. Through excessive eating, genes, or whatever reason, they (i.e. all people who may need a bit more space than that provided by the airlines in a standard seat) need to be treated with the same consideration as any other passenger.
If an airline can prioritize to whom it offers an alterante seat on the same or different flight they can win some very good favor with both the larger person and the person seated next to them. I think a fair prioitization system would be who boarded first. It seems fair that if you board earlier you have the first shot at overhead bins so why not use the same process to figure out to whom you will offer an alternative.
If I were offered a seat on another flight that did not hurt my schedule, possibly accompanied by a minimal voucher or a bottle of wine, I would jump at it. If the larger person (I hope that is the right term) were the one offered the alternative due to being the later one to board, they would probably feel good about being offered a choice. If either party declines the offer, well, they have been dealt with to the best ability of the airline.
The airline is in a win-win situation. They have made an attempt which will in all likelihood be well regarded by both parties and will almost certainly guarantee themselves a repeat customer. Offering a standardized product to human beings makes for many possible scenarios. This is but one, but certainly one which could be used efficiently by the airline to become known as creative and positive in dealing with seating situations. United does a fair job internationally on the routes I frequent and there are far fewer alterante flights on these routes than on many domestic ones in North America.
Problem,...Potentially. Marketing potential...absolutely. Easy,...heck no!
Just a ramble based on an experience I had last week that was resolved very smoothly by a UA crew from SIN/NRT.
Mike