CAN THEY KICK ME OFF A FLIGHT?

A flight attendant claims she was bumped by a passenger's bag, then removes that passenger for not apologizing.

Can she do that?

http://rd.SmarterLiving.com/da102501.10

We seem to be hearing as much about irrational crew behavior as we do about passenger behavior. Isn't there some personal liability on the part of Flight Attendants found to have acted in a completely unreasonable and harmful manner when attempting to exercise some supposed power? Or personal liability on the part of a Captain who exercises Pilot in Command power unreasonably? I'm sure the few people that do this think they have none. Is that true?

You know, not too many things really bother me... I get pissed, mad, sad, but they don't get under my skin like this.

I went to this link and even further to some of the links in the article (about earlier cases of people being ejected because they asked the FA name).

I know many people would say that the attacks of 9-11 made this worse than ever, but many of these people had this happen before 9-11. I am a firm believer that someone who is acting in a manner that is threatening, etc should not be allowed on a plane. But asking someone what their name is, is not doing this. Is there no accountability??? Thankfully I have not had this happen to me or anyone I know, but it still bothers me.

I am against frivilous lawsuits, but I hope some of these people put a hurt on some of these airlines that are letting the FA be the judge, jury and exucutioner. I also hope they name the FA and not just the airline in the suit. Soon in the future, the 9-11 attacks will not be an excuse (like many are using nowadays) and payback will be a *****...

George...

I couldn't help but to respond to this posting. I, too, read the letter, response and attached links to other letters. I couldn't help but wonder. I am an airline crew member and please let me provide my perspective. Those letters were borderline ridiculous. You know how they say there's always two sides to a story? Well, all but one of the stories appeared to be very one sided. Do you really believe that the mother with kids apologized over and over in a sweet, snow white kind of voice, begging for forgiveness and only to be allowed to stay on board? Do you really believe that? This woman had to be at the end of her rope already, having spent several days in Florida alone with the kids and mom at Disney World. I'm not saying that there aren't a few Flight Attendants out there that would over react and toss people off a plane just because. I can tell you that if I was working a flight where a situation played out as those folks would have you believe, I would rush to their defense. Even if it meant upsetting one of my fellow crew members. There's not excuse for behavior like that. I'm sure at least one pf the other passengers within earshot would do the same. I just have a hard time believing those stories exactly as they are told. I will say that carry on baggage (prior to 9/11) was a HUGE problem. I realize the extra time it takes to check a bag and then retrieve it on the other side, and I don't like to do it either. There is simply no way to accomodate two full size suitcases in the cabin for every passenger on board. Quite frankly, I'm embarassed when I have to have a passenger taken off - I feel like the bad guy and I don't like that feeling. It's not something we take lately. Just my persepective....... hope it provides a little insight.

AS Flyer,

You are correct, it IS only one side of the story... But where is the other side? If someone (a few in this case) was saying things like this about me or my company, I would respond or at least have some follow-up where the customers (of my business) would know the real story.

When you give someone (in this case FA) the ultimate authority without any checks and balances, you will have things like this happening and it is not good. Just because you think someone will be a problem, is not a good reason.

If the people would have even been given over to a supervisor (or other outside party) to talk with all involved, then it would not have been as bad as these where you get your bags and leave or you get arrested...

Do I have the answer? no... then again, I dont have that job... if the decision makers cannot come up with a working solution, then maybe its time to replace them and get someone who can.

I think the legal fallout when everything settles down from the attacks is going to hurt the airlines

George...

Thats why we have courts. So we can determine the truth from both parties. Not that it works perfectly, but all in all the truth comes out or the party lying usually can be singled out and in a case like this with many witnesses, it should not be that difficult to see who the offending party actually was

Could you explain more about "taking off" passengers? I would assume it's rare, involving disorderly conduct, abusive language, etc. and needs to be documented. One FA with a personality conflict can't just do that regularly like the Queen of Hearts in Wonderland as this FA was reputed to do?
For what it's worth, I flew DL recently on a segment where an FA indicated, in a stage whisper to the passenger next to me, with whom she had immediately bonded prior to take-off, that there was an economy passenger that "we need to get off this plane" (her words, and rather unprofessional behavior at that). He seemed OK to me, but was evident that the FA had a problem with him not evident to me from what I observed of his boarding the aircraft. He stayed on.
Getting back to the mother and the kids, I sincerely doubt that airline personnel would tell them to "shut up" and threaten to have them arrested as a matter of course.

In all the flying I've done, I've seen one instance where a flight attendant was rude to a passenger -- and it was to my mother. My mother is in her mid 60s, so she was having a little trouble getting a bag up into the overhead bin. Well, the TWA flight attendant snapped at her, if it's too heavy to get up there, you'll have to check it in.

I turned around and said to her, I'll help her get it up there and do your job for you, okay?

I also got that person's name, went down to the TWA ticket counter after we landed, and filed a complaint -- and we were given a voucher for $250.

Now, having said that, I've seen more instances of passengers being rude to flight attendants than the other way around. One of them told me a story about how she simply asked a woman to not dump a soiled diaper in the galley trash can, and how that woman insisted on doing so, and when she said, you can't do that because there's food in here, that woman went ballistic and took a swing at her. The captain had to come out and take care of the situation.

Now, I guess the captain wouldn't come out so passengers would just have to "restrain" this woman.

I do not know about "two" sides to a story. Many times what I have found in any such dispute in life ( including these FA Vs Passenger situations) there are "three" sides to a story. The FA's version, the passenger's version and what really happened. The sad part is that right now only the FA's version may be believed.

Just my .02!

To me, the most scary thing about the Disney Land mother story is not the fact that the FA and the DL managers were *******s but the fact that the police could not stay neutral and work constructively to resolve the situation.

I guess I am not going to start a discussion on how much education police officers should have (here it takes four years to become a police officer) but this is really a threat to my sense and conception of justice.

And the fact that there are now national guards (with even less relevant education)around every corner with a loaded rifle in US airports does not help further.

Right now, the only language the airlines
and unions understand is civil litigation.

I agree that the behavior of the DL F/A in the case you mentioned was extremely unprofessional. If you have questions about a passengers behavior it would be much better to discuss that with the Captain or another crew member. I think the goal in these situations is to try to create as little of a disruption as possible. That means not alerting the other passengers to what's going on if at all possible.

As for reasons to remove someone. We would only remove a passenger if they were creating such a disturbance as to make those around them uncomfortable, or their behavior was so outrageous or suspicious that we could see there would be a problem during the flight that would best be handled on the ground. I would NEVER have a mother and kids removed simply for bringing on too many carry-ons and then questioning me when I ask them to allow me to have something checked. That is the unfortunate nature of my job. Nobody ever wants to part with their carry-ons, yet many people bring more than the allowable amount. It's something that, at least prior to 9/11, we ran into every day on nearly every flight.

If this woman was removed without good reason then she should go to court. All those on board, within hearing distance, could attest to the rudeness of the Flight Attendant. If this became a court case then those people could be summoned to court or asked to make a statement. My guess is that this woman wrote the airline and they responded by apologizing but standing behind the employee. My guess is that the woman will leave it at that because in a court of law her actual behavior will come to light.

I know that there are rude Flight Attendants out there. Sometimes they slip through the cracks during the interview process. I also know that a few can get carried away from time to time. By and large I think at the very most, people would say that they have been handled with indifference rather than been treated downright rudely. I have a hard time believing that Flight Attendants are running rampant throwing people off of planes, yelling at little old ladies and barking orders.

Incidentally, didn't it occur odd to anyone that this Disney World woman was treated rudely by everyone she came into contact with? Even the Police. I still don't buy her story.

[This message has been edited by AS Flyer (edited 10-26-2001).]

Goldlust,

I have reason to believe the guns are NOT loaded. It makes me feel safer!

Nowadays, anything done in the name of "security" seems to be acceptable. Hopefully, the pendulum will swing back toward reason again before too long. This is getting ridiculous.

Bruce

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One can only hope!

my take is that the customer is always right. if customers keep getting more abuse and treated more like convicts that customers they will stop flying. flying often takes longer than train or bus. There is so much prep time involved before and after the flight. If things keep up at this rate people will be turning to alternate travel methods.