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WestJet cuts service to Atlantic Canada and Quebec City

WestJet cuts service to Atlantic Canada and Quebec City

Old Oct 15, 20, 1:10 pm
  #16  
 
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AC alternative

Fiordland has it right. WS should not be allowed to cancel all service to the region and issue vouchers. AC Is now the only game in town and I agree - WS should be obligated to endorse their tickets to their competitor.
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Old Oct 15, 20, 1:31 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by YXUFlyboy View Post
Porter has been grounded since March. It would be a refund - they would not pay their competitors for this.
That is where WestJet is not behaving like a legitimate airline. If I book on Air Canada, United, Delta, or virtually any other "world class airline" and they cancel a flight they will try to rebook on their own metal first, if that is not possible they will rebook onto a competitor.

Even outside the airline industry most responsible business work hard to meet the commitments they make to their customer. That sometimes involves buying from the competitor.
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Old Oct 15, 20, 1:56 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by Fisch View Post
https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...%E2%80%93-CUPE

The Airline Industry Is Crashing – CUPE

WestJet service cuts show federal government asleep at the controls
This is a little precious. I understand and agree with the need for nationally to figure out a way to help businesses and employees, but the reality of yesterday's announcement is that WS is responding to Atlantic Canada's desire to essentially shut down interprovincial travel outside the Atlantic bubble until a date to be determined. It has done wonders for their Covid numbers despite the recent NB outbreak, but it comes with consequences like that discontinuation of air services. AC are still flying and it's hard to believe there's a market for more than that at this time. Subsidizing empty planes flying doesn't make any sense to me at all and the reduction is in many respects respecting the wishes of those provinces.
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Old Oct 15, 20, 8:59 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by YZF_Elite View Post
This is a little precious. I understand and agree with the need for nationally to figure out a way to help businesses and employees, but the reality of yesterday's announcement is that WS is responding to Atlantic Canada's desire to essentially shut down interprovincial travel outside the Atlantic bubble until a date to be determined. It has done wonders for their Covid numbers despite the recent NB outbreak, but it comes with consequences like that discontinuation of air services. AC are still flying and it's hard to believe there's a market for more than that at this time. Subsidizing empty planes flying doesn't make any sense to me at all and the reduction is in many respects respecting the wishes of those provinces.
The Union is out of line here. Saying the federal government has done nothing when it is been covering the majority of WestJet labour cost for the last 8 months and will likely do it for another 6-12 months. He should be thankful for what the tax payers have been doing. Once he acknowledges the assistance if he has other ideas that that reasonable. Saying the government (and therefore the tax payers have done nothing shows a lack of judgment).
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Old Oct 16, 20, 12:10 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by Fiordland View Post
The Union is out of line here. Saying the federal government has done nothing when it is been covering the majority of WestJet labour cost for the last 8 months and will likely do it for another 6-12 months. He should be thankful for what the tax payers have been doing. Once he acknowledges the assistance if he has other ideas that that reasonable. Saying the government (and therefore the tax payers have done nothing shows a lack of judgment).
The government has provided additional assistance to the airlines by allowing/encouraging the airlines to keep passengers money after the airlines cancel the flights. This is effectively sanctioning a large number of involuntary, unsecured interest free loans from the travelling (OK, locked down) public to the airlines. This is different to practice in most other developed nations. I don't know what the value of that is but it's got to be in the $millions.
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Old Oct 16, 20, 6:57 am
  #21  
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Questions: In the world before Covid, was WS making any money on the Eastern Canada routes?

I recall many years ago when I had to fly YQM-YYZ. I didn't have a preference of whether it was WS, AC or PD as they all flew the route (and at the time, I didn't have worthy status with any of them to affect my decision). The only reason I flew AC was they offered multiple flight options/times and WS and PD did not. Is it possible that some loyal WS members might have also chosen something else? If and when the flying world returns to even 50% of pre-Dec 2019, would WS even add some of these routes back?

Thanks in advance for your insight.
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Old Oct 16, 20, 8:05 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by Fiordland View Post
That is where WestJet is not behaving like a legitimate airline. If I book on Air Canada, United, Delta, or virtually any other "world class airline" and they cancel a flight they will try to rebook on their own metal first, if that is not possible they will rebook onto a competitor.
World class airlines also refund when they don't offer a service by the contract, but we don't see that happening in Canada either, even "world class airlines" like Air Canada. In my experience this happens only if there is no other choice. I have been overnighted in a hotel over flying me out on a competitor airline even when space was available. And if it happens, it only happens if I'm in the middle of my journey and there's IRROPS. Not for future travel when I've not left my origin.
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Old Oct 16, 20, 8:11 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by 24left View Post
Questions: In the world before Covid, was WS making any money on the Eastern Canada routes?

I recall many years ago when I had to fly YQM-YYZ. I didn't have a preference of whether it was WS, AC or PD as they all flew the route (and at the time, I didn't have worthy status with any of them to affect my decision). The only reason I flew AC was they offered multiple flight options/times and WS and PD did not. Is it possible that some loyal WS members might have also chosen something else? If and when the flying world returns to even 50% of pre-Dec 2019, would WS even add some of these routes back?

Thanks in advance for your insight.
One could make the same argument for Air Canada in the west. As a YYC-based flier, WS has much greater frequency and class of service for Western Canada with the notable exception of YVR. If I wanted to fly YYC-YQR I have to route via YVR on AC vs. 3x daily on WS, for example. If you are based in Atlantic Canada, WS is probably not your airline of choice (with the notable exception of YHZ which is a focus city and almost a mini-hub). But if you are based in the West or Central Canada and you fly to Atlantic Canada, it might be. Add those fliers to the general FOHTSGs who want the lowest cost and you have a viable service.

WS will resume service in Atlantic Canada when the bubble lifts. If they keep the bubble till the pandemic is over, it will be 18 months at least. Federal help might be coming but unless they are massively subsidizing Atlantic Canada routes, why fly empty planes? And I think it's entirely reasonable to require a lift of the domestic quarantine to provide those routes. The whole reason those routes are unviable is because no one can enter Atlantic Canada outside the bubble.
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Old Oct 16, 20, 9:53 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by YXUFlyboy View Post
One could make the same argument for Air Canada in the west. As a YYC-based flier, WS has much greater frequency and class of service for Western Canada with the notable exception of YVR. If I wanted to fly YYC-YQR I have to route via YVR on AC vs. 3x daily on WS, for example. If you are based in Atlantic Canada, WS is probably not your airline of choice (with the notable exception of YHZ which is a focus city and almost a mini-hub). But if you are based in the West or Central Canada and you fly to Atlantic Canada, it might be. Add those fliers to the general FOHTSGs who want the lowest cost and you have a viable service.

WS will resume service in Atlantic Canada when the bubble lifts. If they keep the bubble till the pandemic is over, it will be 18 months at least. Federal help might be coming but unless they are massively subsidizing Atlantic Canada routes, why fly empty planes? And I think it's entirely reasonable to require a lift of the domestic quarantine to provide those routes. The whole reason those routes are unviable is because no one can enter Atlantic Canada outside the bubble.

@YXUFlyboy
Appreciate the reply.
I'm not based in Atlantic Canada but it was that particular trip that had me thinking about market issues beyond the pandemic.
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Old Oct 16, 20, 10:42 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by YXUFlyboy View Post
One could make the same argument for Air Canada in the west. As a YYC-based flier, WS has much greater frequency and class of service for Western Canada with the notable exception of YVR. If I wanted to fly YYC-YQR I have to route via YVR on AC vs. 3x daily on WS, for example. If you are based in Atlantic Canada, WS is probably not your airline of choice (with the notable exception of YHZ which is a focus city and almost a mini-hub). But if you are based in the West or Central Canada and you fly to Atlantic Canada, it might be. Add those fliers to the general FOHTSGs who want the lowest cost and you have a viable service.

WS will resume service in Atlantic Canada when the bubble lifts. If they keep the bubble till the pandemic is over, it will be 18 months at least. Federal help might be coming but unless they are massively subsidizing Atlantic Canada routes, why fly empty planes? And I think it's entirely reasonable to require a lift of the domestic quarantine to provide those routes. The whole reason those routes are unviable is because no one can enter Atlantic Canada outside the bubble.
Was WS basing any of the Q400 aircraft in Halifax? I thought they were only based out of Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto.
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Old Oct 16, 20, 12:04 pm
  #26  
 
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As of today the WS flight schedule ex YHZ has not been updated. How long before we see the revised schedule?
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Old Oct 16, 20, 12:27 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by Fiordland View Post
Was WS basing any of the Q400 aircraft in Halifax? I thought they were only based out of Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto.
Encore had/has crew bases in YYC and YYZ. As for the physical aircraft, I’m not sure if any were/are “based” in YHZ.
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Old Oct 16, 20, 9:27 pm
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by Fisch View Post
https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...%E2%80%93-CUPE

The Airline Industry Is Crashing – CUPE

WestJet service cuts show federal government asleep at the controls
I bet you'll think twice about voting Liberal next time :P

I don't think it's necessary for government to bail out airlines. They can restructure and adapt. Weak players disappear during a global crisis (1st Gulf War, 9/11, great recession, etc.), but eventually the industry will recover and new players will meet the demand. Where do the bailouts end? Should the government throw money at restaurants, hotels, strip clubs, taxi/limo operators, retail stores, gyms? Are people willing to pay some future massive consumption tax to fund this? Flight attendants can easily seek different employment, it's not like it's some specialized profession.
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Old Oct 16, 20, 10:03 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by YYCguy View Post
Encore had/has crew bases in YYC and YYZ. As for the physical aircraft, I’m not sure if any were/are “based” in YHZ.
What I was getting at is does WestJet treat Halifax or another airport in the region as a regional hub using Q400 aircraft the way it does for Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver.

Given the population of cities in the region the Q400 is a better fix than 737.
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Old Oct 16, 20, 10:06 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyerAl View Post
I bet you'll think twice about voting Liberal next time :P

I don't think it's necessary for government to bail out airlines. They can restructure and adapt. Weak players disappear during a global crisis (1st Gulf War, 9/11, great recession, etc.), but eventually the industry will recover and new players will meet the demand. Where do the bailouts end? Should the government throw money at restaurants, hotels, strip clubs, taxi/limo operators, retail stores, gyms? Are people willing to pay some future massive consumption tax to fund this? Flight attendants can easily seek different employment, it's not like it's some specialized profession.
I would be more sympathetic of companies trying to adapt and reinvent themselves. Ac is running cargo in the passenger cabin of some aircraft. Restaurants are focusing on home delivery and takeout. Not clear what WS is trying to do.
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