WestJet denies Ont. man refund after cancer diagnosis
#16
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
The family chose Basic Economy and chose not to by insurance. So where does the line get drawn - cancer but not a heart attack or an ear infection?
Why should anyone buy travel insurance with this the rationale or book anything more than Basic Economy.
I loathe basic Economy and pay more not to have that ticket.I also pay for insurance when I chose not to I self insure.
AC tries to position itself as the business airline and patriotic flag loving national airline. I would also say the "Canadian" airline, however it is probably un-Canadian to be so flag focused.
#17
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
Many airlines allow full refund or free change in case of death or serious illness of the passenger or immediate family member, regardless of the fare conditions (not sure if this carries through to BE on airlines that have this, however), it seems silly not to permit a full refund if proof is provided. Then again cancer diagnosis in itself has a very broad range of meanings, it could be very early stages/benign and possible that the trip doesn't conflict with treatment or after-effects thereof, so it's tricky to define hard rules on when to allow and when not to allow a refund in these circumstances.
#18
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: No single airline or hotel chain is of much use to me anymore.
Posts: 3,279
I have little sympathy for WestJet in this case. They created a system where they are offering a product this is not appropriate for the target market, Lets face it these Basic Economy fares are targeted at these infrequent travelers who if they understood what was going on would probably buy a more expensive fare class. However they don't.
WestJet has been in "no waivers, no favors" mode for a few years now, a retired WestJet person told me last summer that Gregg Saretsky told a room full of people they couldn't afford to be nice anymore.
#19
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Being “nice” definitely costs money. The majority of infrequent travellers shop predominantly on price and are typically swayed by just $5 in ticket price difference and have virtually no loyalty to any airline, Basic Economy is the rigid ticket option designed just for them.
Bad press isn’t necessarily that detrimental in this case anyway, as has been demonstrated by Ryanair and Spirit Airlines over the years. No press is worse, as any press build awareness of a brand. If you look at comments relating to press articles, there is generally a balance between “should have got a refund” and “should have bought insurance” or similar.
Bad press isn’t necessarily that detrimental in this case anyway, as has been demonstrated by Ryanair and Spirit Airlines over the years. No press is worse, as any press build awareness of a brand. If you look at comments relating to press articles, there is generally a balance between “should have got a refund” and “should have bought insurance” or similar.
#20
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Location: Copenhagen
Programs: skyteam
Posts: 582
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/about-us/index
- Act like an owner
- Care from the heart
- Rise to the challenge
- Work together to win
Caring is part of their business yes but caring always has to balance the health of a business as well and ensure a business is caring internally for their employees career stability.
Profit margins in the airline industry are cutthroat and if anyone with a finance background specializing in the airline industry can attest to, it is make or break. Asking an airline for free airfare because life got in the way is asking for charity period. It is.
Insurance companies created products for consumers to buy for these cases. use it. Westjet has not wavered its caring commitment in any way, as it has constantly supported communities as a whole during times of crisis in Canada and abroad ( ie forest fire evacuations, floods, etc. Westjet cannot help everyone with individual charity needs. It would bankrupt or result in redundancies at the organization.l eventually.
When you buy airfare, buy trip cancellation insurance, and be done with it. There is no stupid excuse .
#21
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Location: Copenhagen
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Many airlines allow full refund or free change in case of death or serious illness of the passenger or immediate family member, regardless of the fare conditions (not sure if this carries through to BE on airlines that have this, however), it seems silly not to permit a full refund if proof is provided. Then again cancer diagnosis in itself has a very broad range of meanings, it could be very early stages/benign and possible that the trip doesn't conflict with treatment or after-effects thereof, so it's tricky to define hard rules on when to allow and when not to allow a refund in these circumstances.
#22
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
From an EK round-trip Y Saver (T) fare (does explicitly exclude illness so more restrictive than I thought):
WAIVERS
1.WAIVED FOR DEATH OF PASSENGER OR FAMILY MEMBER.
A COPY OF VALID DEATH CERTIFICATE ISSUED BY A
COMPETENT MEDICAL AUTHORITY IS REQUIRED.
FAMILY MEMBERS AS DEFINED IN EK CONDITIONS OF
CARRIAGE OR PASSENGER AIRLINE TARIFF RULE BOOK.
2.NO WAIVER APPLICABLE FOR ILLNESS OF PASSENGER
OR FAMILY MEMBER.
3.CONTACT EK OFFICE FOR WAIVERS DEFINED ABOVE.
1.WAIVED FOR DEATH OF PASSENGER OR FAMILY MEMBER.
A COPY OF VALID DEATH CERTIFICATE ISSUED BY A
COMPETENT MEDICAL AUTHORITY IS REQUIRED.
FAMILY MEMBERS AS DEFINED IN EK CONDITIONS OF
CARRIAGE OR PASSENGER AIRLINE TARIFF RULE BOOK.
2.NO WAIVER APPLICABLE FOR ILLNESS OF PASSENGER
OR FAMILY MEMBER.
3.CONTACT EK OFFICE FOR WAIVERS DEFINED ABOVE.
- In event of a passenger not being able to travel as a result of the passenger themselves being hospitalised
- In unfortunate circumstances such as the death of a passenger
I'm sure there are plenty more examples of varying flexibility. From personal experience for example EK doesnt doesn't always enforce the requirement for a death certificate (sister had to cancel 3 days before departure after the sudden death of our father). I've read many reports on FT of BA being extremely lenient with illness of pax or their close relatives even if this is outside of official policy.
I'm typing this and quoting the above on my phone from an Uber in HYD so limited as to how much research I could do right now.
#23
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Location: Copenhagen
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Posts: 582
Its in the fare rules of the specific fares.
From an EK round-trip Y Saver (T) fare (does explicitly exclude illness so more restrictive than I thought):
From kulula.com, a South African LCC that I fly regularly:
Link: http://www.comair.co.za/conditions-of-carriage/kulula-com
I'm sure there are plenty more examples of varying flexibility. From personal experience for example EK doesnt doesn't always enforce the requirement for a death certificate (sister had to cancel 3 days before departure after the sudden death of our father). I've read many reports on FT of BA being extremely lenient with illness of pax or their close relatives even if this is outside of official policy.
I'm typing this and quoting the above on my phone from an Uber in HYD so limited as to how much research I could do right now.
From an EK round-trip Y Saver (T) fare (does explicitly exclude illness so more restrictive than I thought):
From kulula.com, a South African LCC that I fly regularly:
Link: http://www.comair.co.za/conditions-of-carriage/kulula-com
I'm sure there are plenty more examples of varying flexibility. From personal experience for example EK doesnt doesn't always enforce the requirement for a death certificate (sister had to cancel 3 days before departure after the sudden death of our father). I've read many reports on FT of BA being extremely lenient with illness of pax or their close relatives even if this is outside of official policy.
I'm typing this and quoting the above on my phone from an Uber in HYD so limited as to how much research I could do right now.
With Critical illness diagnosis exceptions for trip cancellation and full refunds with airlines, I am having no luck finding any black and white policy allowing exceptions to this situation in North America. Most likely because banks and insurance companies offer trip cancellation insurance to cover these spontaneous events. Simply put , not wide-spread , common place practice. However , there is only one in North America , that I have found thus far , United , of all airline ( eye roll) on a case by case basis, and only “certain” illness
https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/cus...bs-4-unplanned
Last edited by cirrusdragoon; Aug 25, 2019 at 11:03 am
#24
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
#25
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Copenhagen
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Posts: 582
Airways for example only allows cases after a passenger has commenced their journey.
5.15 MEDICAL OR DEATH CERTIFICATES
As already explained, the minimum administrative fee applicable to all voluntary refunds will apply even to those travel documents which are requested to be refunded for medical reasons or death in the family.
A copy of the death certificate, and a certified declaration that the person requesting the refund is an immediate family member, will accompany the required refund documentation, which is submitted.
A medical certificate is only acceptable as a justification to consider the waiver of a cancellation fee in those exceptional cases that may occur only after a passenger has commenced his journey and is incapacitated or prevented to complete the remainder of the journey within the period of the validity of that exposed airfare. A copy of a hospital invoice may also be required.
In the above cases the validity of the travel document will be extended to the first flight available in the same class of service for which the airfare had been paid, no more than three months from the date shown on the medical certificate as the first permissible date to travel.
It is recommended that the passenger be advised and encouraged to take out a cancellation and curtailment insurance cover. The insurance cover
South African Airways Processing of Sales and Fare Audit Manual 2007
will protect and compensate for all those eventualities or penalties that will be levied to those airfares they have chosen to purchase. https://www.flysaa.com/za/en/Documen.../Section_5.pdf
#26
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Location: Copenhagen
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Posts: 582
Hospitalization and Hospitalized means confinement in a hospital as an inpatient.
Inpatient refers to a person who must stay 24 hours as an admitted patient in a hospital for medical treatment.
Recovery Benefit
This benefit provides a payment equal to one day of hospital indemnity benefit and is payable upon release from hospital if an insured person:
has been confined as an inpatient in hospital for at least two consecutive days
Cancer diagnosis is considered pre-existing condition. It is a diagnosis made after several consultations with medical professionals usually due to symptoms over a period of time.
TD Insurance for example:
What is Excluded?
We will not pay an insurance benefit for an insured person if that insured person's hospitalization:
is related to an accident that occurred before the effective date;
is in relation to a pre-existing condition; more specifically, an insured person's hospitalization:
o occurs within 24 months of your coverage effective date under this Certificate of Insurance; and
o is the result of an illness or condition for which you had symptoms or received medical consultation, treatment, care or services, including prescribed medication, during the 12 months prior to the start of your coverage (this is called a pre-existing condition).
Last edited by cirrusdragoon; Aug 25, 2019 at 11:32 am
#27
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
Okay yes death exceptions.
With Critical illness diagnosis exceptions for trip cancellation and full refunds with airlines, I am having no luck finding any black and white policy allowing exceptions to this situation in North America. Most likely because banks and insurance companies offer trip cancellation insurance to cover these spontaneous events. Simply put , not wide-spread , common place practice. However , there is only one in North America , that I have found thus far , United , of all airline ( eye roll) on a case by case basis, and only “certain” illness
https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/cus...bs-4-unplanned
So lets assume, this passenger with cancer decides he wants to go through with the trip anyway because it is important to his kids. He is up front with WestJet and make it clear that he is going against his doctors recommendations and is going on this trip. Will WestJet deny him passage since an MD has said he should not be traveling? Would it give a refund in that case? Would WestJet stick to its position he paid for the flight "use it or lose it".
#28
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Copenhagen
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Posts: 582
I suspect it has little to do with the passenger being able to buy insurance or not. I believe airline general don't want to have seriously sick passengers on their aircraft especially if a doctor has told the passenger he is not "fit to fly" as was the case in this situation. Diversions and the like can be expensive. (About a month ago I was on an Alaska flight where one of the passengers died, it was full flight so not the most pleasant customer experience).
So lets assume, this passenger with cancer decides he wants to go through with the trip anyway because it is important to his kids. He is up front with WestJet and make it clear that he is going against his doctors recommendations and is going on this trip. Will WestJet deny him passage since an MD has said he should not be traveling? Would it give a refund in that case? Would WestJet stick to its position he paid for the flight "use it or lose it".
So lets assume, this passenger with cancer decides he wants to go through with the trip anyway because it is important to his kids. He is up front with WestJet and make it clear that he is going against his doctors recommendations and is going on this trip. Will WestJet deny him passage since an MD has said he should not be traveling? Would it give a refund in that case? Would WestJet stick to its position he paid for the flight "use it or lose it".
#29
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
Yes, we are. The passenger has purchase a non-refundable ticket for him and his family and then later was told by his doctor he has cancer is not fit to fly. He asked for a refund and was told, No, refunds.
#30
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Location: Copenhagen
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Posts: 582
no we are not discussing what warrants a passenger fit to fly.
we are discussing what warrants insurability or under what grounds would a passenger receive a refund . Even travel insurance won’t cover a pre-existing condition such as a cancer diagnosis in order to receive a refund for trip cancellation . therefore what make a person think an airline ought to? Because of human compassion ? hog wash. Then that same argument could be applied to every single medical life event such as HIV diagnosis or Ms diagnosis. Or i had a mental day and i dont or cannot travel because im stressed because i broke up with my girlfriend , at what point does this end? There is no such thing as compensation for everything. This guy has cancer and it is going to involve several treatments over the course of years possibly, not just that day he cannot travel. So should he now also go to the bank that has his mortgage or car loan and say i can’t pay because i just got diagnosed with cancer. This is why we take
out disability insurance for these life events .
we are discussing what warrants insurability or under what grounds would a passenger receive a refund . Even travel insurance won’t cover a pre-existing condition such as a cancer diagnosis in order to receive a refund for trip cancellation . therefore what make a person think an airline ought to? Because of human compassion ? hog wash. Then that same argument could be applied to every single medical life event such as HIV diagnosis or Ms diagnosis. Or i had a mental day and i dont or cannot travel because im stressed because i broke up with my girlfriend , at what point does this end? There is no such thing as compensation for everything. This guy has cancer and it is going to involve several treatments over the course of years possibly, not just that day he cannot travel. So should he now also go to the bank that has his mortgage or car loan and say i can’t pay because i just got diagnosed with cancer. This is why we take
out disability insurance for these life events .
Last edited by cirrusdragoon; Aug 25, 2019 at 1:15 pm