788

Having been on Westjet 767 aircraft a few times since they started in domestic routes, almost every time I witnessed some problems, such as workers repairing broken seats, loose oxygen masks and etc., or long delays, or changing equipment (to Omni aircraft) last minute.

Considering these 767s are 25 years old and have been stored in Australia for some time before selling to Westjet, I'm really worrying about not just reliability but even safety. If I can see so many problems in aircraft interior, I wonder what are the mechanic and structural conditions?

aerobod

The aircraft actually came straight from service in Australia for a stop of one to a few months in California before Boeing sub-contracted them for an approximately 6 month mechanical refurbishment at AAR in Lake Charles.

They have plenty of flying hours left in them and are well maintained at WestJet (all have required some further snag rectification after Boeing delivery in Calgary to meet WestJet standards, although we elected not to do a cabin seat refurbishment other than seat recovering). With the aircraft not being flown for up to a year during refurbishment, much like a car that is not used for long periods, there will be more maintenance on parts that haven't had daily use, but there is no issue from a safety perspective, as all critical systems have multiple redundant components. The two aircraft that WestJet has had the longest and that had settled into better reliability this winter to Hawaii (C-FOGJ and C-GOGN) have done 50% more flying over the past 10 days to and from LGW than the two aircraft received later.

Just as a reference, of the 15 767s that Air Canada has, 11 of them are older than the WestJet 767s, Delta also has 19 767s older than WestJet's, out of a fleet of 92 767s.

Wpgjetse

But, AC's are on the way out and Westjets are on the way in. The real factor is not how old they are, but the climate they have flown in and the number of cycles.

aerobod

The WestJet aircraft (all ex-Qantas) are low cycles for their age (around 20,000 on average) and have been operated in warmer and somewhat drier climates than industry average.

Wpgjetse

Warmer than average is not as good, but dry is.

788

The more and more serious mechanic issues (such as emergency at KEF on Sep 10th) are really worrying me.

Symmetre

AC's 767s are on the way out alright - they're going to rouge, AC's low class carrier. You know, the one that's gradually replacing AC mainline service on more and more domestic and transborder routes.

AC's old '67s aren't going that far.

DoctorDoug

I think the difference is that Air Canada seems to be able to maintain their 767's better than Westjet.

Fiordland

Alternatively, AC has 15 of them at mainline and in you count the other wide body aircraft there over 60 aircraft. Plus another 19 over at rouge. If they have a problem with one aircraft they can sub in another and adjust a domestic flight here or there to makeup the difference. If that can't be done they fly to have partners such as Lufthansa or ANA or United or Swiss or Austrian or Brussels or Turkish .... that also fly into Canada.

WestJet have just 4 aircraft to play with. No real spare. Limited coreshare and interline partners. No real joint venture on overseas.

WestJet will get there but it will take a few years.

YVR72

Rouge is no worse than Westjet, and Rouge actually completes their long-haul flights. I'd also much prefer earning AC status miles that can be used to upgrade to an actual business class on a flag-carrying calibre airline.

Please visit http://flyrouge.com/ and provide me with list of mainline routes that have been replaced by Rouge. Rouge has helped AC expand to amazing vacation destinations across Europe and Africa, and AC has actually reverted back to mainline or added mainline options in several cases. (LAS, LAX, SFO).

I can't think of any other routes that aren't appropriately served by Rouge - a leisure airline. Particularly when WS offers Rouge-calibre service on even their very best business traveller routes like YVR/YYC>>YYZ. I haven't flown a jiffy-jet on a medium-haul flight since I was too dumb to know better.

EDIT: Calgary/Halifax is a route that has been replaced by Rouge... seems appropriate.

YVR72

This is really the bottom line. But, is that few years getting prolonged because of this growing perception of unreliability?

Maybe Westjet should just take the plunge and buy some new 787s or 350s.

keitherson

Are you kidding me? They've rouged multiple routes.

They just announced Bogota. This follows a long list of rouging, such as Barcelona, Lima, Athens, all of the UK, and so forth.

That's where the "rouge" term comes from. A route being rouged. It. has. become. a. thing.

Not judging the product, just saying.

Fiordland

In fairness these routes that have been rouged are routes that in years past AC would be more than likely to simply drop. South America is doing well.

Barcelona is a destination that pre-rouge was operated with the 767 in a domestic configuration. Athens only came back as a rouge destination. Same things as Lisbon.

In the case of the UK pre-rouge it was Heathrow. All the other UK destinations came for a while and were long gone by the time Rouge came along. They were able to re-introduce service.

The routes out of Vancouver that have been rouged are Las Vegas, Hawaii (which frankly had the same service pre-rouge) and sun destinations. The new rouge routes in Japan was a route AC struggled with and dropped years before.

YVR72

A blanket statement about Rouging is not accurate in the slightest. LHR has up to 10 daily flights from Canada - LGW was a supplement to compete with the Westjet flights that occasionally make it there. The rest were seasonal, 2 or 3x weekly, or ad hoc seasonal destinations at best - not what I'd call a formal mainline route.

Rouge has added far more destinations to the AC network than they have converted.

They are also maxing out given the number of aircraft they can operate under the collective agreement..

Symmetre

Are you kidding me? The vast majority of routes that rouge flies were formerly served by AC mainline. Just out of YYZ alone, rouge has replaced AC mainline service on flights to YXX, YLW, YYG, YDF, MCO, TPA, LAS, FLL, HNL, SRQ, RSW, SAN, PHX, MIA, PSP and LIM. Beyond that, there are just as many more now-rouged routes out of YUL and YVR. The number grows all the time. I didn't even include the numerous Caribbean routes that were formerly served by AC mainline.

And don't get too excited about rouge completing its long-haul flights. Tell it to these people. There are others, if you care to search.

As far as WS offering "rouge-caliber service" goes, I think you need to get out in the world and fly a bit more to gain some perspective. The reality is that Westjet gate agents and flight crews are generally known for providing great service, while rouge's employees are best known for earning half what AC pays its mainline employees. Where Westjet is known for offering a seat pitch of 31 to 33 inches in Y on its 737s, rouge is known for its tightest-in-the-industry 29 inch pitch on its 319s and 321s. No one - and I mean no one - boasts about the superior service or opulent comfort they experienced on a rouge flight. But two seconds on Google (or FlyerTalk, or TripAdvisor) will yield more complaints about rouge than anyone really needs to read in a lifetime.

It's not just me, and it's not just Flyertalk and TripAdvisor. For 2016 JD Power ranked Westjet with a customer service index (CSI) score of 723, measurably higher than the 681 CSI score it gave to Air Canada. That was for mainline, by the way - rouge didn't even register.

Fact is, when Air Canada introduced rouge in 2014 customer complaints were so overwhelming that AC allowed travelers to rebook flights that had been booked on mainline service and subsequently "rouged" at no charge. Even AC couldn't argue that the rouge product was sub-standard.

I invite you to enjoy flying on rouge and earning your valuable AC status miles. You might even have the opportunity to upgrade on a domestic flight, but as an E50, it won't happen often, and will cost you an armload of upgrade credits when it does. Meanwhile I will enjoy flying on Westjet with its greater seat pitch, friendlier service, and the occasional comp upgrade to Plus just because the seat was empty and someone thought I might enjoy it - all with no need for idiotic R Games or having to pay a premium for Flex fares in order to earn 100% mileage credit.


Really? When do you think AC planned to drop YYZ-LAS, YVR-LAX, YYZ-MIA, YYZ-TPA or YYZ-MCO?