Virgin Pilot suspected of drinking, VS022 delayed 23 hours
Dec 20, 2003, 9:59 am
#3
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I didn't know TSA screeners were trained in detecting intoxicated people, I wonder what the pilots blood alcohol level was. One day, one of these TSA guys is going to make a big mistake and cost the TSA a lot of money
Dec 20, 2003, 2:03 pm
#4
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Jacque:
I didn't know TSA screeners were trained in detecting intoxicated people, I wonder what the pilots blood alcohol level was. One day, one of these TSA guys is going to make a big mistake and cost the TSA a lot of money</font>
I didn't know TSA screeners were trained in detecting intoxicated people, I wonder what the pilots blood alcohol level was. One day, one of these TSA guys is going to make a big mistake and cost the TSA a lot of money</font>
I'm no great fan of TSA, but it seems to me that they did the right thing here. If indeed the captain was intoxicated, and it appears that he was at least some level, I for one am glad that he wasn't flying a 747 that night.
Dec 20, 2003, 2:43 pm
#5
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According to teletext tonight The Captain - Richard Harwill, 55 years, has been charged with trying to fly an aeroplane while drunk.
This seems a strange offence - using the term drunk, rather than any reference to exceeding a limit or flying undre the influence of alcohol.
Am I right in thinking that there is a zero tolerance for pilots where drink is concerned?
If so - calling him drunk may be a little over the top.
IMO - IF he was under the influence of alcohol - no matter how slight, it is difficult to have any sympathy for him.
Nick
[This message has been edited by Nottingham Nick (edited Dec 20, 2003).]
This seems a strange offence - using the term drunk, rather than any reference to exceeding a limit or flying undre the influence of alcohol.
Am I right in thinking that there is a zero tolerance for pilots where drink is concerned?
If so - calling him drunk may be a little over the top.
IMO - IF he was under the influence of alcohol - no matter how slight, it is difficult to have any sympathy for him.
Nick
[This message has been edited by Nottingham Nick (edited Dec 20, 2003).]
Dec 20, 2003, 10:24 pm
#6
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Nottingham Nick:
According to teletext tonight The Captain - Richard Harwill, 55 years, has been charged with trying to fly an aeroplane while drunk.
This seems a strange offence - using the term drunk, rather than any reference to exceeding a limit or flying undre the influence of alcohol.</font>
According to teletext tonight The Captain - Richard Harwill, 55 years, has been charged with trying to fly an aeroplane while drunk.
This seems a strange offence - using the term drunk, rather than any reference to exceeding a limit or flying undre the influence of alcohol.</font>
Dec 21, 2003, 3:27 am
#7
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Passengers have now arrived and some are being interviewed on BBC Radio's Five Live.
It seems all had a letter from RB with his e-mail address as well as a voucher for a trip anywhere that Virgin flies - and no doubt elites will get a little more in restitution.
Even if he doesn't get to see many of the e-mail messages, well done, RB!
It seems all had a letter from RB with his e-mail address as well as a voucher for a trip anywhere that Virgin flies - and no doubt elites will get a little more in restitution.
Even if he doesn't get to see many of the e-mail messages, well done, RB!
Dec 22, 2003, 5:10 am
#8
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Nottingham Nick:
...IMO - IF he was under the influence of alcohol - no matter how slight, it is difficult to have any sympathy for him.
Nick
[This message has been edited by Nottingham Nick (edited Dec 20, 2003).]</font>
...IMO - IF he was under the influence of alcohol - no matter how slight, it is difficult to have any sympathy for him.
Nick
[This message has been edited by Nottingham Nick (edited Dec 20, 2003).]</font>
------------------
Bazz
Still Flying
Dec 22, 2003, 6:44 am
#9
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The operative word is he was "suspected"of being drunk.
The question of the charge using the word drunk is legitimate and regardless of the difference in the US and British view of terminology the word "drunk" is not usually used in a court charge in the USA.
The word used is "intoxicated" You are not tried on a charge of driving while drunk. You are tried on the charge of driving while intoxicated (DWI) or driving while under the influence (DUI).
I question why the story has left out the blood alcohol level of the pilot if he was actually charged. Virtually all stories in the US media quote this level in these stories. That is IF the pilot was tested.
I also doubt that the TSA has the ability to determine if anyone is drunk ACCORDING TO LEGAL DEFINITION. Smelling booze does not make a person drunk or impaired.
The timing of the stories was also suspect as they appeared the following night at approximately the time that nights flight was getting ready to depart which gave the impression that it was a current story and not a day old and was on all so called 24 hours news channels. Why the delay ?
Let's give the pilot his day in court before he is tried in the media and on this web site.
The question of the charge using the word drunk is legitimate and regardless of the difference in the US and British view of terminology the word "drunk" is not usually used in a court charge in the USA.
The word used is "intoxicated" You are not tried on a charge of driving while drunk. You are tried on the charge of driving while intoxicated (DWI) or driving while under the influence (DUI).
I question why the story has left out the blood alcohol level of the pilot if he was actually charged. Virtually all stories in the US media quote this level in these stories. That is IF the pilot was tested.
I also doubt that the TSA has the ability to determine if anyone is drunk ACCORDING TO LEGAL DEFINITION. Smelling booze does not make a person drunk or impaired.
The timing of the stories was also suspect as they appeared the following night at approximately the time that nights flight was getting ready to depart which gave the impression that it was a current story and not a day old and was on all so called 24 hours news channels. Why the delay ?
Let's give the pilot his day in court before he is tried in the media and on this web site.
Dec 22, 2003, 9:18 am
#10
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"Let's give the pilot his day in court before he is tried in the media and on this web site. "
I couldn't agree with that more.
The point of my post was to see if anyone has any idea of the FACTS of the case, as opposed to media speculation.
The reporting of ongoing police / court matters on either side of the Atlantic is vastly different - in the UK - once a person is charged with a criminal offence the matter is sub judice and all that SHOULD be reported are his / her personal details and the offence alleged - that way he / she can have their day in court and be judged by their peers in the form of a jury or magistrates. That is the theory anyway!
In the US - it seems to me - that far more details of the investigation are reported, usually including comments from prosecuters, defence attourneys et al as to the facts of the case.
In this specific case we have two possible extremes ranging from the chap having a single drink over eight hours before flying but still having a breath problem - to him being severely under the influence of alcohol whilst attempting to board an aeroplane with the intention of piloting it!
As a police officer (albeit a detective - and a British one at that
) I would have thought that the fact (if it is a fact) that he was kept in custody, rather than being bailed, would indicate that it was taken VERY seriously by the authorities.
All I am after is a true account of what took place.
Nick
I couldn't agree with that more.
The point of my post was to see if anyone has any idea of the FACTS of the case, as opposed to media speculation.
The reporting of ongoing police / court matters on either side of the Atlantic is vastly different - in the UK - once a person is charged with a criminal offence the matter is sub judice and all that SHOULD be reported are his / her personal details and the offence alleged - that way he / she can have their day in court and be judged by their peers in the form of a jury or magistrates. That is the theory anyway!
In the US - it seems to me - that far more details of the investigation are reported, usually including comments from prosecuters, defence attourneys et al as to the facts of the case.
In this specific case we have two possible extremes ranging from the chap having a single drink over eight hours before flying but still having a breath problem - to him being severely under the influence of alcohol whilst attempting to board an aeroplane with the intention of piloting it!
As a police officer (albeit a detective - and a British one at that
) I would have thought that the fact (if it is a fact) that he was kept in custody, rather than being bailed, would indicate that it was taken VERY seriously by the authorities.All I am after is a true account of what took place.
Nick
Dec 22, 2003, 9:51 am
#11
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Nottingham Nick:
As a police officer (albeit a detective - and a British one at that ) ...
</font>
As a police officer (albeit a detective - and a British one at that
) ...</font>
.[edited for punctuation]
[This message has been edited by Roger (edited Dec 22, 2003).]
Dec 22, 2003, 10:01 am
#12
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Roger -
Thank goodness Jim Davidson is not considered funny any more.
Everyone who said 'Nick Nick' to me was convinced it was the first time I had heard it
Thank goodness Jim Davidson is not considered funny any more.
Everyone who said 'Nick Nick' to me was convinced it was the first time I had heard it
Dec 23, 2003, 1:09 am
#13
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Nottingham Nick:
Roger -
Thank goodness Jim Davidson is not considered funny any more.
</font>
Roger -
Thank goodness Jim Davidson is not considered funny any more.
</font>
Was he ever ?Sorry not to be original (eats humble pie) but I also get 'rogering' attacks from time to time - and I guess that will be meaningless to our North American cousins.
Dec 23, 2003, 8:07 am
#15
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Lots of coverage in the UK media about him being bailed and having to stay in the USA.
At the risk of repeating myself- still no word about blood / alcohol levels.
Interestingly in the Daily Mail (not known for ever reporting bits of stories that don't suit them) his lawyer, Thomas Hill, appears to make a big play about what a reliable man he is and that he would certainly turn up for his bail - but nowhere does he make any comment about his innocence or how much he had drunk before being arrested.
Again - I don't want to presume anything, or convict the man by media, but I will watch developements with interest - whilst still flying VS whenever I can.
BOS in February is next I think - hoping the sales are still going and the pound still buys $1.70!!
Nick
At the risk of repeating myself- still no word about blood / alcohol levels.
Interestingly in the Daily Mail (not known for ever reporting bits of stories that don't suit them) his lawyer, Thomas Hill, appears to make a big play about what a reliable man he is and that he would certainly turn up for his bail - but nowhere does he make any comment about his innocence or how much he had drunk before being arrested.
Again - I don't want to presume anything, or convict the man by media, but I will watch developements with interest - whilst still flying VS whenever I can.
BOS in February is next I think
- hoping the sales are still going and the pound still buys $1.70!!Nick