dhuey

At around $1,500, buying an F ticket for SFO-IAD is pretty tempting, but still pricey. I'd sure be happier paying the $250 upgrade charge each way, but I have no idea how likely it is I'd get that offer. Does anyone here have experience with this route in terms of offer or no offer?

Also, anyone know of any promo codes or other discount angles for buying this F ticket?

Thanks in advance for your time.

aviators99

If there is a single seat available in F 24 hours in advance, you can buy it for $250 at that time (first come, first served). It is not capacity controlled in any other way. Check other flights this month on the same day of the week 24 hours in advance, and you can get a pretty good idea of how it will go.

articos

There are rarely promos for F fares, unfortunately. If they do, they're usually fare sales, as opposed to promo codes. The availability of the buy-up upgrades vary by route and by time of day, just depending on loads. It's not an offer, really - if there are F seats avail 24 hours prior to flight, you can do the upgrade. In my experience, IAD is one of the easier routings to grab a F seat on last minute. JFK has been the more difficult.

dhuey

Exactly the information I was looking for. Thanks so much, and thank you, aviators99, as well.

articos

You're welcome. Your mileage may vary, of course. Take aviators99's advice and check the day of the week you're looking at in advance to figure out your best options. The early flight is usually the easiest, of course, but not always, depending on how many direct flights there are that day. You can always buy the coach fare and intend on upgrading, then just keep an eye on the seating chart for that flight, also. If they start to sell out, you can just buy up to first with no change fee, although the fare could get a bit more expensive. Things could change as the fall season goes on, so just keep tabs on the flights you want.

CThomp79

FWIW, flying SFO-JFK and back in late July, I was successful making a walk-up upgrade both ways. I was pleasantly surprised to find a little over half the F cabin available for upgrade when I checked in. For this route and during a busier travel season I had expected my chances to be lower. Given this experience, I would expect availablility SFO-IAD to be as good or better, though as others have said it may vary significantly.

On a sidenote, as a relatively frequent UA flyer, it is interesting to consider the difference in F availability on VX since frequent flyer status is not a factor. In fact, dare I say, it's refreshing not to have the "gate lice" effect of 1K/GS/*P pax checking to see if their upgrade cleared.

aviators99

Have you flown PS on UA? I've been trying to find someone who has tried both VX F and UA PS to compare the two.

dhuey

United gets most of my business as well (just shy of 2P status). I would have bought a UA ticket, but there were no mileage upgrades available in either direction. I'm not sure if this shows greater demand or that UA is holding back the upgrade inventory, but the result is I'll probably be taking my first Virgin America flight.

articos

Comparatively, it was originally somewhat apples to oranges. Different product, a la comparing VS Upper to BA First to an American carrier's TransAtlantic F product, and comparing VS Premium Econ to a true Business class product - not the same, although they share elements. Now, with recent cutbacks (based on others' reports, as my experience with PS/AA Flagship is prior) it seems VX is right up there and pulling ahead - especially when comparing individual elements on a paid ticket.

I'll compare certain specifics:

Seats: I dislike the UA PS pods on a 757, and they originally configured some of their older 757s, so the planes were a bit worn around the edges and loud, even with the refresh for PS. It seems they've more recently refreshed some of their 767s as well, so there may be a few new cabins out there. However, UA is notoriously bad about maintaining the PS cabins. There seem to be a lot of complaints about broken seats/filthy seats and ill-maintained cabins. It's nice they're pods, and it's nice they're lie-flat, but they aren't true lie flat - they're lean-flat, and to me, they're not very comfortable. It's a harder foam in order to do the lie-flat mattress, and it's not contoured well. The PS seats are also very plastic-y, as opposed to the more lux feel of the VX Recaros having higher-quality materials - personally, if it's not turning into a flat bed, I'd rather have the VX sleeper seats than the PS lean-flat-but-I'm-not-comfortable Pods. VX F Recaro seats are better than both the Avio PS F & C seats by far, imo. (I actually like the PS Business class seats better than the PS Pod seats, and PS Business is still twice the cost of VX F. Separately, AA Flagship 762 F seats are very comfortable, and also Recaro, but several generations behind VX's.) Also, Avio F Pods have none of the connectivity - there's the same flex reading light, and power in an awkward spot so you have a cord running down your arm. They do have electric seat controls, and a nice lumbar control, but no massage. No vid screen attached, so no remote, no usb, no ethernet. The cowl and divider is nice as it gives a little bit of privacy, but not a whole lot. The Avio seats are about the same width as the Recaro's, but they feel narrower. About 13 more inches of legroom on PS, however. What you get on VX that you don't on PS: More comfortable, massage, full connectivity (power/usb/future ethernet), integrated Red screen, clean seats, integrated remote with keyboard/call buttons, tray table with integrated book stand/mensa test (you try to figure it out without help the first time...you'll see. ) What you get on PS that you don't on VX: More seat back storage and privacy.

Food/Bev: Originally UA PS meals were at int'l standards, but evidently no longer. According to August 2008 reports, PS meal service has been curtailed, and original int'l style service is now more in line with standard domestic tray-based F, and no longer anything special. That said, VX has recently cut back on 3-4 course F meal service as well, although VX offers a full selection of quite good coach snacks/entrees for F passengers on a complimentary basis, making up a bit for cutting back on served courses. It seems in terms of quantity, UA PS F is still a bit better than VX on fully catered flights, but in terms of food quality, VX F outshines. PS F does specialty pre-flight cocktails that VX doesn't do, however VX sometimes seems to have a better wine selection. VX uses high quality plastic utensils and doesn't do linen service (although VX F does use high quality glassware), which PS still does, but things like individual salt/pepper shakers, towel service and pre-landing chocolates have disappeared on PS flights. I don't have experience with PS C class food/bev, so can't comment from experience. According to others' opinions, VX F seems to outdo PS C with recent changes to catering.

Service: VX wins. UA is still UA, with unhappy FA's sometimes, whereas VX staff is just better/more interested, in general, albeit more casual. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I have yet to have bad service on VX, whereas it runs from Excellent to Uninterested on UA, AA, etc.

A/V: VX Red blows away UA PS's AVOD devices. I'm biased, since I hate the portable Archos units everyone uses, but no live tv, gaming, chat, internet soon, nowhere near as good a selection of music/movies on demand, playlists...no Red in general. Red's a game changer...when it works.

Haven't been in the UA PS lounge, so don't know the comparison there, but I've been told the Virgin lounge at SFO still outdoes the PS lounges, and in general, Virgin lounges are among the best in the industry.

The most important comparison though, is the price tag per the product: PS is priced as a true First product, which is why I say it's an apples to oranges comparison. The best transcon product used to be AA Flagship First in their 3 class 767s, which is also priced accordingly, then it was a toss up between AA and UA PS, and now it depends on what you're looking for and seemingly luck of the draw on whether you get a new/refreshed cabin, good service, full catering, etc. AA Flagship still offers one of the top soft products, at a premium price, although with rather outdated cabins compared to VX. CO offers one of the better meal services available on transcons. UA PS, when fully catered and in a new cabin with working seats, used be a great experience, on par/better than AA Flagship, but maybe those days are gone for now. Based on recent reports, for my own preferences, I'd pick VX any day, esp comparing an $800 to $1500 VX round trip vs. a $5200 to $10,000 round trip on UA PS or AA Flagship.

That's my take for the moment.

aviators99

Thanks, articos. That's what I've been looking for. :-)

dhuey

I just booked the RT: $339! Man, that's crazy -- fuel per passenger is probably $225.

I hope I can give them an extra $500 for the F seats. Per the advice above, I'll be checking the inventory of the next few weeks. There are four F seats available on the outbound and six on the return. If it gets down to two, I might bite the bullet and pay the difference, at least for the return.

One more question. I normally would have paid the $50 for the exit row seat, but since I hope to buy the upgrade, I didn't do that. If the upgrade is not available, is there still a chance to buy the $50 premium seat when you do the online check in (if available)?

aviators99

Yes.

aviators99

Here's another trick. When you do the upgrade, you don't have to do it through OLCI. I find it much easier to just do "change seats" and click on an available F seat. It will pop up a box and let you know that it will cost $250. Click "OK" and go from there. Then you can do OLCI after you upgrade.

dhuey

Thanks -- I'll do that. Why is it easier?

aviators99

It's unclear to me where it prompts you for the upgrade when you do OLCI. I've only tried it once, and I didn't notice it, so I ended up checking in my coach seat. I had to call VX and have them un-check me in and then do it the way I described.