DOT rejects VX's request to keep stats private
Jun 27, 2008 | 9:38 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: VX, UA 2P
Posts: 968
DOT rejects VX's request to keep stats private
Sounds like there could be some VX operating data (for Q4 2007 & Q1 2008) coming out soon:
US Dept. of Transportation's Bureau of Transportation Statistics Office of Airline Information yesterday rejected a request by Virgin America for confidential treatment of financial, traffic and O&D survey data filed with BTS. The airline, which commenced service last August, had withheld filing financial and traffic information for the fourth quarter of 2007 and first quarter of 2008 pending the decision. It has 10 days to appeal.
http://atwonline.com/news/other.html...37;2F27%2F2008
http://atwonline.com/news/other.html...37;2F27%2F2008
Jul 8, 2008 | 12:19 pm
#4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The views I express here are not necessarily supported by any airline or codeshare partners, nor do I represent their views and/or opinions. They are my own OPINIONS dont like them dont read them.....
Posts: 1,615
What is VA afraid of? If you are so superior to the other airlines, you may want to be on time in addition to mood lighting and an awesome IFE. What a bunch of cowards.
Jul 8, 2008 | 5:02 pm
#6
Used to be Sydneysider
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: CPH
Programs: AS MVP/Gold (and 75K aspirant)
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What a stupid argument. VX is a privately held airline and not subject to the same public reporting requirements as a listed company. If I owned VX I'd be absolutely furious, as it's none of anyone's damn business but the owners'.
Jul 8, 2008 | 8:17 pm
#7
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 4,104
Jul 8, 2008 | 8:34 pm
#8
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,724
This has nothing to do with the reporting requirements for public companies. The DOT requires US airlines to submit O&D data and then releases it to the public. VX benefited from this data, by using it to find markets to serve. Now VX doesn't want to let others see their performance.
Jul 8, 2008 | 8:48 pm
#9
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 4,104
This has nothing to do with the reporting requirements for public companies. The DOT requires US airlines to submit O&D data and then releases it to the public. VX benefited from this data, by using it to find markets to serve. Now VX doesn't want to let others see their performance.
Virgin America further asserted that while competitors could use Virgin America data to precisely direct their competitive response to Virgin America's low-fare service. Virgin America cannot, conversely, use Form 41 data to its advantage because of the difficulties in disaggregating competitors' market and aircraft specific financial data from a far greater number of markets, services, and aircraft types.
Jul 8, 2008 | 9:07 pm
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: VX, UA 2P
Posts: 968
Jul 8, 2008 | 9:36 pm
#11
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,724
in essence stating that they can't use the competitors' info (of the specific type they were trying to conceal) to help them, because unlike them, the competitors have many different aircraft types and thus CASM, etc. Seemed like an interesting argument, but there was precedent (ExpressJet tried the same thing) and they lost. Again, O&D was just a small part of what they were trying to protect. Mostly it was financial statements, profit margins, etc.
Last edited by audio-nut; Jul 8, 2008 at 10:00 pm Reason: deleted repeated word
Jul 8, 2008 | 9:55 pm
#12
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 4,104
While it is difficult to put together a legacy carriers market specific P&L's, it is not impossible. There are third party companies which dissect O&D data as well as cost data by aircraft type. All airlines subscribe to these services for their planning needs. I am sure even VX has been able to compile makeshift P&Ls for other carriers in their markets. At the end of the day, VX does not want to play by the rules that every other carrier plays by. If VX really thought this was a huge issue they should have disclosed disclosed it during the DOT's determination of fitness.
In any case, they lost the battle. It's easy to argue against their arguments after they lost, eh?
Jul 8, 2008 | 9:59 pm
#13
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,724
I would have made the same argument before they lost. I would bet that they also knew their argument was nonsense. They were delaying the inevitable.
Jul 8, 2008 | 10:04 pm
#14
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
in essence stating that they can't use the competitors' info (of the specific type they were trying to conceal) to help them, because unlike them, the competitors have many different aircraft types and thus CASM, etc. Seemed like an interesting argument, but there was precedent (ExpressJet tried the same thing) and they lost. Again, O&D was just a small part of what they were trying to protect. Mostly it was financial statements, profit margins, etc.
Can't blame them for trying, but it is a foolish argument. It still won't show how much cash they have on hand, just provide estimates for their burn rate, and they will be rough estimates at that.
Jul 8, 2008 | 10:08 pm
#15
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,724
It does provide cash on hand as well as short and long term investments.