prismwiz

My real name is not James Parker, keep guessing, only 6,000,000,000 people left. If push comes to shove I believe WN would have adapted sooner with a less planed plan than the BS they have now (pun intended). Buying the hedges allowed WN to price lower, a common biz practice.

Back to VX....

Great summary ubc123 and welcome to Flyertalk. I hope that VX is listening. If not I would be willing to "work" for them. All I need is free travel and access to all top secret numbers

Raindeer

Now THAT is a great idea, and one which may cause me to fly VX again. And, now that we can predict which A319s on SFO-LAS are dark, all the easier!

mikeef

I don't understand why everyone is getting all over the OP's case. Virgin advertised and sold a product that they didn't deliver. It's as simple as that. It is not "We'll get you there in one piece." It's "We'll get you there in one piece with a whole bunch of added amenities."

I understand that there are a lot of people who like Virgin a lot. That's great, because we need more competition from good carriers. But in this particular case, the OP got screwed. Frankly, I'd lob in a call to Branson's office. No, he's not going to call you back personally (well, probably not), but one of the big differentiating points when this airline got launched was service, and the OP didn't get it.

Mike

journalist212

I agree! I am trying VX F on a short haul flight to sample the product (I am a AA premium transcon flyer usually). I am booked SFO-LAS and have called and been told that I will not be on a dark plane (so they claim). I have a bad back and need to be able to have a certain amount of seat recline per my doctors orders. thus, I pay more for a product that will offer such.

The OP paid a premium and did not receive what he paid for. VX should have refunded the difference between F and the Y fare (lowest fare available at the time of booking). If these "dark" planes are actually scheduled and not emergency replacement aircraft, they should note this when purchasing.

I would suggest filing a complaint with the FTC and my state's attorney general for deceptive marketing. If they are well aware in advance that they can't offer the service they market on a particular flight, they should not be selling it without a warning at the time of purchase.

$25 voucher does not seem to be reasonable compensation for what is apparently a planned involuntary downgrade of purchased service.

I hope I get the service I've paid for, and to have a positive experience on my "recon" flight.

asya999

The dark plane seats have recline. The only difference on the recline is that it's manual. Also the seat massage function won't work.

Rexly

I've been too busy to send back my counter to their response yet but now I have a little time I thought I'd post here for any suggestions before I do respond.

BTW , before anyone comments, I know the deadline for my response has passed but VX didn't initially respond in time either, we're all busy. The BBB still can take further comment regarding this.


Complaint filed against: Virgin America (More)
Business Info
NAME: Virgin America

BBB MEMBER: NO

CONTACT:XXXXXXXXXXXXX

ADDRESS: 555 Airport Blvd
Burlingame, CA 94010

PHONE: 877 359-8474

FAX: --None--

Website: www.virginamerica.com

(Less)
Complaint status: Inform Business - Case Closed ASSUMED RESOLVED (More)
Activity
Date Activity Description
04/01/2008 Case closed - Assumed Resolved
04/01/2008 Inform Business - Case Closed ASSUMED RESOLVED
04/01/2008 No Consumer Response - Inform Business Assume Res
03/14/2008 Forward Business Response to Consumer CLT.cf.rtf
03/14/2008 Receive Business Response
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Rexly,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. We are sorry you were unable to experience our inflight entertainment and massage feature on your flight. We realize this is disappointing to our Guests and are working hard toward a remedy.

That said, we are in the business of providing air transportation. While it is true we were not able to offer you the entertainmen portion of our product, we do hope you found a great deal of value from us in other areas. Guests seated in our First Class cabin have 55 inches of pitch, their own flight attendant and receive complimentary snacks and beverages. These amenities combined with our brand new airplanes and Virgin America teammates result in a travel experience which is superior to the other airlines we compete against, none of which offer any of the above.

While I respect your request for a free ticket this is not something we are willing to agree upon. Again, our pledge is to provide transportation which we hope our Guests find enjoyable and value oriented. We hope you will use the $50 credit that you were issued toward another Virgin America Flight.

Regards,

XXXXXXXXX
Virgin America Guest Care
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

03/14/2008 More info received from the business
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Business supplied email: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Use this address for any contact with the Better Business Bureau
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

03/12/2008 NMBR-Resend Complaint to Business - 2nd Letter
03/12/2008 NMBR- No response to first notice to business
02/25/2008 Inform Business of the Complaint
02/25/2008 Send acknowledgement to Consumer
02/25/2008 Complaint Validated by BBB Operator
02/23/2008 Complaint Received by BBB

(Less)
Case Description: I paid for a first class ticket on Virgin America from San Francisco to Las Vegas on November 29th , 2007.
Upon boarding I was informed that the all of the systems associated with the first class cabin were not functional. The recline of the seat did not function , the advertised massage function was inoperable , and the IFE (Inflight Entertainment) that was advertised was inoperable.
I later found out that the seats can be reclined manually, this also was never offered to me.
I was given a voucher for $25 for a future flight, which I felt was inadequate for the lack of promised service. I called Customer Care and was told that was absolutely all they go do , after I insisted they gave me a $50 credit to use on a future flight. I still felt this was not enough but let it go at that time.
I have come to find out as of mid-February, they are continuing this practice ande I feel this was not , as I assumed, an isolated incident but a an accepted company practice that makes me feel like I was defrauded when I purchased the first class ticket. I think the company had prior knowledge that they would be unable to provide what they promised, and sold the product anyway.
Thank you , Rexly (Less)
Category: Product Issues
Case opened date: 02/25/2008
Case closed date: 04/01/2008
Desired Resolution: A first class ticket to be used at a later date would be reasonable compensation for knowingly selling a non-existent product in the past. (Less)

Download a copy of this complaint so you can print it for your records

nermaljcat

I'm assuming you paid and extra $100 for a SFO-LAS F ticket? Although it is bad of VX for flying a plane without IFE, the flight was only ~1.5 hrs, you got to sit in a comfy seat and got free snacks. Don't you think that was worth the extra $50 (after refund)? You would have had to pay an extra $25 for exit rows that are not as good.

What would you have gotten from UA if you bought an F fare (and paid a heck of a lot more for it). I'd be surprised if you got more than just "warm nuts" on a flight that length. No IFE, mechanical recline (although it doesn't require assistance).

aviators99

Just FYI,

I'm someone who worked for BBB as an arbitrator for 4 years. It doesn't appear that VX is in the "BBB Cares" program, which would eventually lead to arbitration and a potential different outcome for you. The arbitrator could have awarded you something like a free ticket, and VX would have to abide by it. Since they aren't part of the program, complaining to the BBB will not help, except to change the number of complaints against them. This might be useful if someone decides to call BBB before they book a flight to check the number of complaints, but it's unlikely.

If you think you've really been wronged that badly, you should pursue a different avenue, in my opinion.

journalist212

One would assume that as a matter of basic PR management, VX would want to reduce and eliminate any open BBB complaints.

OP should file a complaint with the FTC for deceptive marketing on the SFO-LAS routes IF VX knowingly sells seats and ammenities it knows it doesn't plan to provide at the point of sale.

SFO 1K

First, VX did respond to the complaint. The OP shows the chronology on their post. That would appear to indicate they do want to address any open BBB complaints.

Second, we've established that the dark plane is not "scheduled" so that it is known in advance which flights will be operated by it. The aircraft is being rotated throughout the west coast routes on an as needed basis to cover flights on the schedule, rather than have schedule cancellations and reaccomodations. Therefore, VX does not knowingly sell seats and amenities it doesn't plan to provide at the point of sale. The dark plane is assigned on routes as late as the night before the flights take place and is only assigned if all other existing aircraft are either assigned a route or out for maintenance.

Rexly didn't get their free F ticket, I'm not clear what else they want from their post. VX doubled their credit from $25 to $50. They paid for a seat and got it, food, drink and transportation. They didn't get IFE or a massage. That doesn't entitle you to a free ticket. So what else should one expect?

And let's get off the whole "advertising something and getting something else" bandwagon as it relates to THIS complaint. You bought a ticket to Las Vegas, you got flown to Las Vegas... therefore you don't get a FREE ticket. $50 compensation for lack of IFE seems pretty generous.

rjque

The clear message in VX's response to the BBB complaint is that VX only provides what other airlines provide: transportation from A to B. As such, there is no need for anyone to make an effort to fly VX over the competition and instead everyone should just buy the least expensive ticket.

Rexly

First off , a thanks to Aviators99, I appreciate the feedback about the BBB.
I really didn't expect much by filing with the BBB, and I was disappointed with the VX response, but all I really wanted was to do as you said, have negative feedback posted if there was no resolution. I don't think 1 BBB posting makes much of a difference, but if VX continues to provide poor after flight customer service, the reports will increase and people will eventually be informed and practices will eventually change (or VX will be another Independence Air.) Either way I'm not too personally invested.


I actually decided to file the complaint when I read about Raindeer's experience he had in February and felt more irritated about my experience in November , knowing VX hadn't resolved the issue. I thought it was a bit of hubris at that point. At least they started emailing folks the night before, all I got was a note as I walked on the plane.

The point of my taking the first class flight vs. coach was to roadtest the "experience" and I'm pursuing this further because the test went poorly. I WANT TO FLY VX! Right now, I can't, because the only real recourse a consumer has, is to "vote with their feet" as they say.

Raindeer

Wow, I thought this thread had faded, but I am glad it's alive and well....

Actually, as the OP, I'd say that IS the whole point of this thread. They advertised one thing and knowingly delivered something else. In my book, that's deceptive. That they are claiming the "we provide transportation" line, then that makes them no different than Southwest in practice, even though they try to differentiate from Southwest with their marketing message.

Look, I personally think this whole thing could soon become moot. Aloha, Skybus, Champion Air, ATA...could Virgin America be next? I, personally, would be very wary of purchasing a ticket on an unproven start-up in an environment of high oil prices leading to so many shutdowns. I wouldn't want to be stranded....

aviators99

That's ridiculous. Virgin America will be around for way longer than you can book tickets for. They announced recently that they are ahead of their projections. They are filling up planes. I'm having trouble getting first class seats on my flights and am starting to need to book further in advance.

Raindeer

Really? From the Daily Deal:

http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/200...e_to_go_ba.php

Here's the relevant exerpt:

Virgin America remains a wild card. The airline only began service last August, and typical of a startup has bled money so far, losing $35 million during its first quarter of operations. The airline is attempting to ramp up while other airlines are scaling back flying. Working in its favor is Richard Branson's involvement, as the British entrepreneur who spent more than three years wrangling with U.S. regulators for permission to start service is unlikely to give up easily. But U.S. law limits Branson's ownership, and it is unclear that U.S. investors led by Black Canyon Capital and Cyrus Capital Partners who have already committed about $162 million will be willing to fund continuing losses.

They may be ahead of projections in terms of passengers boarded, and maybe even RASM, but, if they projected $100 oil in their original business plan, they would be better served shutting down the airline and focusing on speculating in the futures markets.... Somehow, I don't see how their losses are better than expected....