tonywestsider

No, I think Boeing screwed up development of their latest models and at the same time discontinued production of some very fine airliners, which led to more Airbus sales.

One might say the Japanese are prouder to buy American than the Americans. Look at the fleet composition of NH, JL, etc...

Ancien Maestro

Or perhaps.. political/business reasons had something to do with the purchases..

Funny if Americans don't buy Boeing.. then how is Boeing expected to sell internationally.. regarding screwed up development of their latest models..?

tonywestsider

Well, the latest sales between the these manufacturers from one of the biggest industry air shows are quite telling. Boeing had a nice demonstration at one of the air shows but Airbus ran away with sales. AA recently submitted a huge order of both Airbus and Boeing planes, mainly 737s, which are not as popular as their competitor, the A320. The other interesting trend is that some carriers are replacing "aging" 777s with A330s. OTOH, Boeing is doing well selling the 777-300ER but as I mentioned in an earlier post, US carriers currently do not operate the plane and act as if the model does not exist. Only AA has put in orders for the 773s to be used for long haul international service.

Wally Bird

Correct: http://www.concordesst.com/history/events/braniff.html

The SIA half-Concorde: http://heritageconcorde.com/wp-conte...10/05/sia2.jpg

Kettering Northants QC

Re Concorde in the early days there were stories that BA didn't have a clue how to price the tickets. Prices used to be so low that effectively the "business and show-biz elite" were having their tickets heavily subsidised by passengers on other non-Concorde flights. This apparently changed when BA surveyed it's Concorde passengers (whose PA's almost invariably brought the tickets) and they asked them how much they thought their ticket had cost. They found that the passengers thought they were paying significantly more than they were currently being charged and very quickly prices went up.

florin

Apples and oranges. The US gov't is not the same thing as private airlines.

European vanity is a stupid assertion to make; I'm not going to respond to that.

I call BS. Do you have any evidence to support that? I think you're assuming that if a European airline bought the A380 then it must be for political reasons, and unless you have something to support it, I think it's BS. These are private airlines. These airlines also fly Boeings; it's not like they're all Airbus.

Do you have any numbers to back up this claim? How do you know that it doesn't make economic sense? The A380 is more economical in terms of CASM; unless the flights go out empty (and I don't think that's true), those flights make money. If you have any evidence, please provide it; otherwise please don't state your assumptions as facts.

Ancien Maestro

BA surveying their customers.. and the customers say that they need to pay more? Usually customers on surveys would go the other way, to keep the favourable pricing..

Or am I misinterpreting?..

BearX220

I think pride and home-nation politics have absolutely nothing to do with US carriers' purchase decisions. That hasn't been the case since UA chose the A320 over the B737 back in the 1980s. US and NW chose the A330 over the B767, B6 went all-Airbus from day one, etc. It's all about driving the best deal irrespective of politics.

It does serve the airlines' interests, though, to keep Boeing, Airbus and increasingly Embraer healthy and constantly in selling / negotiating mode. Hence the recent AA split order.

As for the question "How is Boeing expected to sell internationally if Americans don't buy Boeing?" ... Americans don't buy many airplanes at all these days because they don't have the capital, so Boeing has to make the vast majority of its sales overseas regardless of what happens at home. There is no overseas airline that would reject a Boeing model because not enough US carriers have ordered it. That would be silly.

Kettering Northants QC

Yes, I think you're misinterpreting. BA realised their passengers weren't the ones actually buying the tickets it would be a PA and that in many cases the passengers wouldn't ever find out how much they would paid for the ticket. So the story goes BA asked them "how much do you think your PA paid for your ticket"? They didn't tell them how much they were actually paying, just what they thought they had paid

The answers they got back indicated that the super rich thought they were paying a lot more for the flight than they were in reality being charged, and so BA put their prices up significantly and it was only by doing this that Concorde could ever pay its way.

Check out the paragraph about BA buying Concorde outright in the following
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde

YVR Cockroach

I doubt if Concorde ever paid its way when adjusted for inflation and/or cost of capital (or even not!)

planemechanic

Wow, what got your nickers in a twist?

BearX220

I guess I don't care. But ask yourself why all US carriers pulled the 747 off the North Atlantic 25 to 30 years ago. Lower CASM isn't the issue. Long and thin is in; short and stout is out. If the 747 is too big for the market, the A380 is... your guess.

Ancien Maestro

What you say is true..

I'm just pointing out the perception of US airlines preferring Airbus.. and how that perception would resonate to international carriers who is considering buying Boeing..

Thanks for pointing this out..

Didn't make sense to me that a survey would be put out to customers.. whose feedback was that the prices were too low..

Kettering Northants QC

BA got the planes cheap