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-   -   Avoiding tipping in the U.S. -altogether! (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/usa/1011855-avoiding-tipping-u-s-altogether.html)

lili Nov 24, 2009 11:36 am


Originally Posted by frequentflyerupfront (Post 12873218)
my last trip managed to not tip. Example arrived at kerbside check in at IND. The sign says fee $8, so I gave him my bag and he checked it in and then I gave him the money in change. He quickly reminded me it was $8 plus tip. I asked sorry but where does it say plus tip, he said it doesnt, "good then I paid the right amount" I said and walked off. It makes me sick how everyone expects a tip for doing what they are paid for and what you are often payting thorugh the nose for.

Why didn't you just take the bag inside and check it for free? At least that way you're likely to get it tagged with the correct destination ;) :)

jackal Nov 24, 2009 8:52 pm


Originally Posted by tsastor (Post 12871687)
Reaally? The customers pay the salesperson extra because of pleasant sales? Come on...

Please tell me you aren't serious.

I think my meaning was quite clear.

A commissioned salesperson is paid on results. The more he sells, the more he makes. It's based on his revenue intake, because that is what he most effectively controls and what he can do to help the company. So, in effect, the customer is paying the employee by way of how much he or she buys.

Waitstaff have much less control over revenue (other than recommending appetizers, sides, and desserts), and their most effective metric is customer satisfaction. Since that's not something the employer can reliably measure (since few people will turn in comment cards or otherwise report on their satisfaction), tipping is one of the most efficient ways to incentivize servers to provide good service.

Sagy Nov 24, 2009 10:31 pm

For me it is not the percentage as much as how much tip is expected. I have no problem rounding a $20.xx bill to $25.00 for good service (20%-25%). But I feel differently about $102 bill. The "funny" thing is that the person getting the $4.xx tip is likely to be very appreciative while a $18 tip on $100 bill might get you a nasty look.

As far as claiming that the person serving you the $100 meal did more work I find this to be less than factual. The best way to see it is a meal with soft drinks vs. an identical meal with beer or wine. It is likely that the "soft drinks" meal required more work (due to free refills) while the total cost is going to be much lower. What is the justification in tipping the person that did less work more?

meester69 Nov 24, 2009 11:19 pm


Originally Posted by Sagy (Post 12876752)
For me it is not the percentage as much as how much tip is expected. I have no problem rounding a $20.xx bill to $25.00 for good service (20%-25%). But I feel differently about $102 bill. The "funny" thing is that the person getting the $4.xx tip is likely to be very appreciative while a $18 tip on $100 bill might get you a nasty look.

18% is not good now?

Wow.


As far as claiming that the person serving you the $100 meal did more work I find this to be less than factual. The best way to see it is a meal with soft drinks vs. an identical meal with beer or wine. It is likely that the "soft drinks" meal required more work (due to free refills) while the total cost is going to be much lower. What is the justification in tipping the person that did less work more?
Indeed. Or going to an upscale restaurant and ordering the $25 hamburger, or the $75 Wagyu steak. Does the server personally deserve $10 more for bringing you the steak rather than the hamburger?

I guess not, but the idea is that each pays according to his means - you are not in fact paying for the service you receive, but more like a 'tax' to cover the server's wages. And just as you pay more tax on $100k than $30k, you pay more 'tax' when you order better food.

Presumably a cheap restaurant makes a profit, just as an upscale one does, and the server will earn enough through turning more tables at the $20 diner to make a living. Maybe a higher percentage would be justified in the cheap diner, but you should not tip more in an expensive place simply because you ordered a cheap or time-consuming service. Your low $ amount will be balanced out by the guy paying a service charge on a $500 bottle of wine.

tsastor Nov 25, 2009 12:20 am


Originally Posted by jackal (Post 12876412)
Please tell me you aren't serious.

Sure. You were making a comparison that was not valid.

moondog Nov 25, 2009 1:11 am


Originally Posted by tsastor (Post 12877024)
Sure. You were making a comparison that was not valid.

How wasn't it valid?

tsastor Nov 25, 2009 1:22 am


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrH:
Yes, but most of us have our performance based wages paid by our employers, not our employer's customers.

Originally Posted by jackal:Those who are on a sales commission are basically paid by their employers' customers.
No offense meant but you tried to negate MrH's argument "most of us have our performance based wages paid by our employers, not our employer's customers" by a false comparison.

In your second post in reply to me you corrected this.

nkedel Nov 25, 2009 3:23 am

To the OP:

Given the cost of minibar drinks, why not go to a 7-11 instead?


Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF (Post 12740117)
I like New York, but the tipping there makes it uncomfortable. My friend, a new yorker, left a 27% tip for dinner. That ruined the meal for me.

Did he expect you to chip in? If not, why would his expense bother you?

That said, a 27% tip on a non-trivial bill would indicate (to my mind) extraordinary service or some fairly expensive (relative to the rest of the bill) comped items.


Originally Posted by jayball (Post 12740185)
In most states (except Oregon and Washington, I believe - someone can correct me if I'm wrong), waitstaff make anywhere between $2-4/hour - well below minimum wage.

Some cities and counties in California have minimum/living wage ordinances above and beyond the state/federal minimum for tipped staff. I'm fairly sure, for example, that the San Francisco minimum wage ordinance applies to tipped staff as well.


Originally Posted by 1312AvEK (Post 12741281)
Find a grocery store (they are allllll over southern california!) and bring food to your room in a cooler (like my mom always did when we were kinda poor) and make sandwiches, if your room doesn't have a fridge you can request one (not joking).

Even if you don't request a fridge, it's pretty easy to find food that doesn't require refrigeration.

This is good advice outside the US too, of course - the ability to put together a good meal from say, Sainsburys in London or CONAD in Rome has made a HUGE difference in being able to eat well AND affordably when traveling where restaurants are relatively pricier.


You can find a way to sneak in booze too (every grocery store sells booze).
Why would you have to sneak in booze? Is there some secret "no outside alcohol" rule at most hotels that I've never noticed?

I've brought my own bottle of wine for in-room consumption with my wife, or picked up my own sixer of beer many a time...


Originally Posted by mshaikun (Post 12742039)
Travel a long way at great expense to only eat in fast food restaurants and at breakfast bars. Brilliant.

For some parts of the US, the fast food is the most authentic local cuisine anyway :P


Originally Posted by Mr H (Post 12744115)
Do these specify the maximum wage too? Are hotels and bars really prohibited from paying their staff a living wage?

There's no legal requirement to keep the wages down, only market forces that encourage it (often rather strongly.)

tsastor Nov 25, 2009 5:40 am


Originally Posted by nkedel (Post 12877334)
To the OP:

Given the cost of minibar drinks, why not go to a 7-11 instead?

NAH, I've given up on this one. I'll go to the ES manager's reception and give a small tip when appropriate (although I don't understand why I have to tip the manager ;)

controller1 Nov 25, 2009 5:58 am


Originally Posted by Sagy (Post 12876752)
As far as claiming that the person serving you the $100 meal did more work I find this to be less than factual. The best way to see it is a meal with soft drinks vs. an identical meal with beer or wine. It is likely that the "soft drinks" meal required more work (due to free refills) while the total cost is going to be much lower. What is the justification in tipping the person that did less work more?

In many restaurants, tips are shared with the bartenders and bar-backs when they are added to checks which include bar service. By short-changing the tip on this type of meal, you are shorting several people.

Sagy Nov 25, 2009 8:03 am


Originally Posted by meester69 (Post 12876881)
18% is not good now?

Wow.

Yes in some places, I only noticed it in so called "upscale" this is the view.

Sagy Nov 25, 2009 8:09 am


Originally Posted by controller1 (Post 12877700)
In many restaurants, tips are shared with the bartenders and bar-backs when they are added to checks which include bar service. By short-changing the tip on this type of meal, you are shorting several people.

I don't short the tip in these cases (I do understand the impact) I just find it totally unjustified by the work performed.

iainbhx Nov 25, 2009 10:33 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 12764442)
Demanding 20% after all of that? Sounds like it is out of control to a lot of Americans too.


I've had that as well, 25% claimed in San Francisco. Service was really lousy, they got 10%.


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