I agree with you about the 'tip creep'. I was astonished last week to be told off by a waiter about not tipping. However the service for our meal had been atrocious, so no tip was deserving. Probably the last time we'll go there.

I can't accept that deft transfer of responsability from enterprises to consumers, a transfer that is spreading across the world now under the name of... hum... let's say good manners, solidarity, or fair share, or virtue, or whatever. I pay, I pay well, I pay everything, so put on the bill what I have to pay and I will do so, or I will go somewhere else if I am not happy with what I get. I can't anymore express my deception by not tipping: tipping has lost all its meaning. It is a hidden due.

the problem is tipping has already "invaded" other countries. :(

Look at it this way: maybe we don't want to encourage employment practises that take away the responsibility for the employers to pay their employees.

As said before in this same thread, I would be happy to pay a higher base price for services in order to avoid the tipping practise that is embarrassing for me and might be embarrassing for the service employee as well. I would be happy to pay the employer for the services so that she/he would make sure to hire the best employees and keep them motivated and ensure a fair pay among his/hers other employees. Something I, as an occasional tourist, am in no position to ensure.

Btw. the really poor people really in need of help are somewhere completely elsewhere than working in the U.S. service industry. Or else the situation is even worse than I can imagine.

Whatever happened to "when in Rome?" Funny how so many sophisticated travelers want to criticize other countries for their customs and to flout them while visiting...

In solidarity I'm going to start refusing to pay the exhorbitant VAT taxes, often hidden, that I encounter in so many countries, particularly since I'm not a resident and derive no benefit from them.

:p

A truly great and informative post and worthy to lengthen this thread with.

Unlike others, I knew that tipping originated from Europe, although I would have guessed from France (where I used to believe all good manners and great customs originated from).

When I as a child went out to eat with my family (which happened maybe once or twice a year) it was always a festive occasion, the food was good and plentiful and the waiters/waitresses well dressed and polite. It was customary, but never required, to add a tip but the tip was of a maximum about 10%.

The waiters/waitresses did not rely on this tip for their living as the tip was more a symbol of appreciation.

If the service is truly outstanding, I still don't have a problem with this custom. However, during the last 30 years or so, eating out has become a commodity, the service is rarely anything special and tipping in Europe has - with a few notable exceptions - in my experience diminished radically.

I was actually surprised when I first found out that tipping in restaurants in France is not expected.

Now back to the U.S. Here tipping has evolved into something completely different than what the common practise in Europe years ago used to be. (Maybe with the exception of the U.K., but they don't consider themselves Europeans now do they :p ?)

In the U.S., tipping is REQUIRED. When the person expecting the tip looks at me, I feel uncomfortable. It is the same look a dog has when expecting his reward. Very confusing and - I would say - degrading.

This may sound right or wrong to you Americans. I am just still trying to explain why tipping the American way feels so bad for many foreigners.

Sorry.

:confused: Surely it's the American sales taxes which are hidden?

Like buying a flight from Ryanair - you think you've got a good price, but then the previously undisclosed taxes and charges are added at the last minute and the price jumps up at the till! Like with eating in a restaurant - the price you see should be the price you pay!

I agree with your first statement however - whilst I dislike intensely the tipping culture, I do try to adapt to local cultures when and where I can. To not do so out of ignorance is embarrassing, to not do so deliberately is boorish.

Not sure if this comment is done in jest, but given that sales tax varies from state to state and there might also be local taxes or specific taxes that can create a higher percentage depending on the type of transaction, it's a bit harder to get a final price for something unless you're on a site like google shopping that can account for that. In restaurants in the US it is understood that the "real" price is __ + sales tax + tip. In essense it's understood/implied that most people know the sales tax and tipping rules.

I've been pretty amused with this thread... I think it boils down to this:

No tipping in many countries in Europe because service is included =

Positives:
Price you pay is price in the menu/card
No worries about offending anyone
Negatives:
If the service is crap, you don't have a say in it other than mentioning it to manager (which probably will not result in a discount on service)

Tipping in N.America =

Positives:
Staff earns their service money by actually performing.
You can withhold or lower the tip (generally) if service is pathetic
Negatives:
Always have to pay more than the price on the menu/card.
Never sure if it's too much, too little or just right.

And then you have the Southeast of the US... That's a whole different thing... :

Some bartenders give crap service and expect BIG (40%+) from people... Will treat friends (and occasionally the regulars) much better than 'tourists'...

Some waitresses will try to add the tip to the tab (very nasty trick, and we've had people FIRED because of that).

HTSC

Try that crap on me and I won't rest until that waiter is fired.

I have a rule. 15% for sit-in, more or less depending on the quality of service. 10% for delivery, more or less depending on promptness and courtesy. Nothing for takeout. Period. If the waitstaff is rude for ANY reason, tip instantly goes down to zero.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by hidden tax. In every country I have ever been except USA and Zimbabwe, the marked price of products in the shop is what you pay. That's as it should be. As a customer, I don't care how much of the price I pay goes on tax, how much on the vendor's profit, how much on the wholesaler's profit, how much on the manufacturer's profit and how much for the raw materials. I just care how much less money I will have.

In the USA, the price is marked sans tax. I have no idea when I go into a shop how much I will have to pay to own the product. Generally it is more than the marked price, but sometimes not. The percentage of tax varies from transaction to transaction. I'm sure there's a logic to it, but as a visitor it is simply bewildering. Therefore, I think of the tax as hidden, because I can't see it when I look at the price of the product. But, of course, once I have paid for the product I agree that I can see it more clearly than elsewhere.

I cannot see how a percentage % tip for delivery can be appropriate. In a fine dining restaurant it makes more sense, because you do get more personal service than a cheap place, but for delivery, 10% is irrational, since you get exactly the same delivery service whether you've ordered $10 of food or $40.

In the UK £1 would always be ok for a tip for a delivery person.

I would say this would generate expressions of astonishment up and down the land. We don't tip delivery people.

Perhaps its due to the different political culture, but I would suspect that most Americans you ask would say that they do care about this. I certainly do. It's one last, little bastion of transparency in government. Hide the tax, and it will go up--and people will not notice and eventually stop caring, as has happened with income taxes.

Perhaps. Although I do know VAT in the UK is 15% - I know that it was put down by Gordon Brown from 17.5% where it had been for many years since it was raised from 15% by John Major, ostensibly as a 2 year measure to generate funds for a poll tax transition scheme. And prior to that, it was raised from 8% (12.5% for luxury goods) by Margaret Thatcher. But since changes in VAT tend to be accompanied by reciprocal changes in income tax, it's neither here nor there.