the grapevine: US and UA are talking about something
Sep 21, 2009, 8:07 pm
#16
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MCO
Programs: DL-DM/1MM, HILTON-DIA, .HYATT-DIA/GLOB , IHG-PLT,HERTZ 5*, NATIONAL ES
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OT, I worked on a survey tonight, that seemed to be more of a comparison between US and CO. A number of the questions asked you to provide rankings on service, quality, elite programs, etc., but the only two airline options that were listed in this section were US and CO. Not sure who is sponsoring this one...
Sep 21, 2009, 8:32 pm
#17
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 791
Remember, Mr. Parker mentioned multiple times in the past that additional consolidations are needed. If this is a case, then it will persuade other carriers (UA & CO) to reconsider about their strategy on M&A.
Sep 21, 2009, 9:09 pm
#18
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Commuting around the mid-atlantic and rust-belt on any number of RJs
Programs: TSA Random Selectee Platinum, * Gold, SPG/HH/MR mid-tier, and a tiny bag of pretzels.
Posts: 9,255
Here is the rub--CO and UA won't mate (they did the code share). CO wants nothing to do with Tempe (from a few years back). I suppose UA and US could mate, but the UA board told Parker a year or two ago that if they did, Tempe would not run the show. Which makes sense--do you really think that elites in DC or LA or ORD would flock to US when they have airlines with superior products at the same price available to them?
Sep 21, 2009, 9:18 pm
#19
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Programs: AA EXP; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, UA 1.56MM (fmr UA1K)
Posts: 5,770
Sep 21, 2009, 9:48 pm
#20
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Programs: DL Silver, UA Silver, Marriott Lifetime Silver, IHG Plat, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,695
Well, perhaps they have some data now which shows that pax are willing to pay for these "enhancements," where before they believed they were not. Perhaps its a realization that some of their moves were wrong. Experimentation is not without risks (but also not without rewards: the new fees, for example, will net US $500 million a year).
None of these things had to happen. These type of things haven't happened in the DL/NW merger.
Sep 21, 2009, 10:12 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,422
What enhancements? I'm not talking about fees or à la carte. I was talking about ripping out seats and closets from first class, adding more seats to Y with less pitch/space, not cleaning the aircraft well, not taking care of interior aircraft repairs except with duct tape, the awful reservation migration in March 2007, the bad IRROPS and mishandled luggage of past years, not resolving work group contracts, etc. Those weren't enhancements, those were bad management.
None of these things had to happen. These type of things haven't happened in the DL/NW merger.
None of these things had to happen. These type of things haven't happened in the DL/NW merger.
The luggage situation -- which has always been mostly a PHL problem -- never got worse after the merger. Indeed, it has slowly gotten better. It's now at a point where US's mishandled bag ratio is very competitive in the industry.
The Rez Migration was screwed up: badly for a weekend, and modestly screwed up for a month or two. Worse than previous migrations? No.
And blaming management for the labor issues -- which have in no way truly affected any US customer EVER -- is silly. Sure, Delta learned a lesson from the dysfunctional behavior at the US pilot unions. But hindsight is 20-20.
Sep 21, 2009, 11:16 pm
#22
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Commuting around the mid-atlantic and rust-belt on any number of RJs
Programs: TSA Random Selectee Platinum, * Gold, SPG/HH/MR mid-tier, and a tiny bag of pretzels.
Posts: 9,255
I love the casual dismissal, though.
Sep 22, 2009, 6:18 am
#23
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 791
Here is the rub--CO and UA won't mate (they did the code share). CO wants nothing to do with Tempe (from a few years back). I suppose UA and US could mate, but the UA board told Parker a year or two ago that if they did, Tempe would not run the show. Which makes sense--do you really think that elites in DC or LA or ORD would flock to US when they have airlines with superior products at the same price available to them?
Here is my point --- Mr. Parker is a smart man but he is also a shrewd businessman. He is looking for a dance partner with a potential to become a companion. Meanwhile, he is also enticing other associate to come along to challenge his motive. Either he is going to marry his dance partner or his dance partner will marry someone else to reduce the competition.
Sep 22, 2009, 6:36 am
#24
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: BOS,PIT
Programs: Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, JetBlue Mosaic, United Silver
Posts: 461
Maybe UA is just giving US a heads up on how many elites they are stealing with their as yet unmatched double miles promo... 
US is trying to explain the benefits of making accidental elites out of the Kettles...
US is trying to explain the benefits of making accidental elites out of the Kettles...
Sep 22, 2009, 9:22 am
#25
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The views I express here are not necessarily supported by any airline or codeshare partners, nor do I represent their views and/or opinions. They are my own OPINIONS dont like them dont read them.....
Posts: 1,615
Sep 22, 2009, 10:20 am
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Sep 22, 2009, 10:26 am
#27
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posts: 6,956
I guess what I am trying to say was that my first impression of Northwelta was very good, whereas an outsider's first impression of US would probably not be as good. I know that the DL/NW merger is not proceeding without its share of hiccups and nay-sayers, but I do believe that DL/NW has managed to avoid at least some of the merger-related problems which occurred during and after the US/HP merger.
Sep 22, 2009, 10:30 am
#28
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA1K
Posts: 4,044
Your point is well taken.
Here is my point --- Mr. Parker is a smart man but he is also a shrewd businessman. He is looking for a dance partner with a potential to become a companion. Meanwhile, he is also enticing other associate to come along to challenge his motive. Either he is going to marry his dance partner or his dance partner will marry someone else to reduce the competition.
Here is my point --- Mr. Parker is a smart man but he is also a shrewd businessman. He is looking for a dance partner with a potential to become a companion. Meanwhile, he is also enticing other associate to come along to challenge his motive. Either he is going to marry his dance partner or his dance partner will marry someone else to reduce the competition.
wouldn't be surprised if US leaves * now that CO is joining.
Sep 22, 2009, 11:55 am
#29
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LAX
Programs: Airline Free Agent/MR Gold/ HH Diamond/National/MGM/Amex
Posts: 662
My completely uneducated guess about what was said in the US/UA talks:
US: We need you to keep *net blocking and lazy FA's so you dont steal all of our customers!
UA: Okay, but we need you to keep those horrible F seats and even worse miles earning ratio so you dont steal all of our customers!
US: Deal
UA: Deal
...
Both: Wait...what about when CO joins!? Crud!
US: We need you to keep *net blocking and lazy FA's so you dont steal all of our customers!
UA: Okay, but we need you to keep those horrible F seats and even worse miles earning ratio so you dont steal all of our customers!
US: Deal
UA: Deal
...
Both: Wait...what about when CO joins!? Crud!
Sep 22, 2009, 12:10 pm
#30
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hotlanta.
Programs: I've gone underground!
Posts: 4,604
At a minimum, labor issues affect morale which affects how customers are treated.