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DENIED!!! - DOT Denial of Motion of US for Additional Delay Starting PHL-PEK route

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DENIED!!! - DOT Denial of Motion of US for Additional Delay Starting PHL-PEK route

 
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Old Aug 13, 2009, 8:27 am
  #16  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Long but detailed answer....

ACMI - Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance & Insurance
The LESSOR provides the aircraft, one or more complete crews (including engineers) including their salaries and usually allowances, all maintenance for the aircraft and insurance, which usually includes hull and third party liability. The LESSOR will charge for the block hour (choc off to choc on) and depending on the aircraft type sets a minimum guaranteed block hours limit per month. If the airplane flies or not, the LESSEE must pay the amount for the minimum guaranteed block hours.

The LESSEE has to provide all fuel, landing/handling/parking/storage fees, crew HOTAC including meals and transportation as well as visa fees, import duties where applicable as well as local taxes. Furthermore the LESSEE has to provide passenger/luggage and cargo insurance and in some cases need to cover the costs for War Risk. Furthermore the LESSEE has to pay the over flight/navigation charges. This point is a bit complicated. When flights are operating they use a flight number, which is issued to airlines by the ICAO. In order to cover the costs of air traffic control services, states over flown will send a bill to the owner of the flight number, which can be readily identified by its code. The aircraft owner will probably have a code, but will not want to use it because he will end up paying the bills. Therefore, an ACMI lease requires that the LESSEE provide his own flight number, so that the bills can be directed to him. Thus, an ACMI lease can usually only take place between two ICAO member states airlines unless other arrangements have been made between LESSOR and LESSEE.


Wet Lease
Is basically ACMI as explained above. The period can go from one month to usually one to two years. Everything less than one month can be considered as ad-hoc charter.

Damp Lease
Is similar as ACMI and Wet leasing however usually without cabin crew. The LESSEE will provide the cabin crew. This can only be done if the cabin crew receives SEP (Safety and Emergency Procedures) training by the LESSOR, in order to be acquainted with the differences of the aeroplane. This term is not often referred too.

Dry Lease
Is the lease of the basic aircraft without insurances, crew, maintenance etc. Usually dry lease is utilized by leasing companies and banks. A dry lease requires the LESSEE to put the aircraft on his own AOC and provide aircraft registration. A typical dry lease starts from two years onwards and bears certain conditions as far as depreciation, maintenance, insurances etc. are concerned. This depends on the geographical location, political circumstances etc.
There is generally two types of dry lease, an Operating Lease and a Finance Lease.

Operating Lease:
generally a lease term that is short compared to the economic life of the aircraft being leased. An operating lease is commonly used to acquire aircraft for a term of 2-7 years. With an operating lease the aircraft doesn't appear on the Lessee's balance sheet.

Finance Lease:
also known as a capital lease, is defined when on of the following conditions are met:-
1) at the end of the lease term the Lessee has the option to purchase the aircraft at an agreed price.
2) the lease payments are more than 90% of the market value of the aircraft.
3) the term of the lease is over 75% of the aircraft's usable life.
With a finance lease the aircraft appears on the Lessee's balance sheet, as it is viewed as a purchase.

http://www.globalplanesearch.com/vie...easing-def.htm

And there's always....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_lease
plon is offline  
Old Aug 13, 2009, 8:43 am
  #17  
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Interesting.

So in the case of a wet lease ... US would pretty much just outsource it's PHL-PEK flight operations to the LESSOR (like SAS or whoever). The cabin crew, maintenance engineers, pilots ... everyone would be on SAS' payroll ... they'd just be wearing US uniforms and the plane would be painted in the US logo.
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Old Aug 13, 2009, 9:55 am
  #18  
Oxb
 
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I can not imagine that the labor agreements of US would allow for a wet lease for a mainline aircraft.
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Old Aug 13, 2009, 10:19 am
  #19  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Short answer is wet lease includes crew, maintenance and insurance. Dry does not.
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Old Aug 13, 2009, 10:23 pm
  #20  
LAX
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA
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Originally Posted by Phudnik
By "worth the money," I understood LAX to mean the money it would cost US to acquire 2-3 aircraft capable of flying this route.
Yup, plus all of the associated costs (ie: staffing onboard and at PEK, fuel, etc.). From what I understand, a carrier would lose a route authority unless it's granted an exception (which is already denied) or it's being utilized (either directly or indirectly).

LAX
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Old Aug 14, 2009, 12:14 am
  #21  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PIT/DFW/MEL; AA Exec. Platinum & 4MM, QF WP
Posts: 7,689
Originally Posted by LAX
Yup, plus all of the associated costs (ie: staffing onboard and at PEK, fuel, etc.). From what I understand, a carrier would lose a route authority unless it's granted an exception (which is already denied) or it's being utilized (either directly or indirectly).

LAX
They were told no for now, and instead to reapply in six months or so. There aren't any costs between now and next Spring in any event.
martin33 is offline  


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