"Direct" Flight with Change of Plane - NEVER AGAIN!
Mar 13, 2009, 11:54 am
#1
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"Direct" Flight with Change of Plane - NEVER AGAIN!
I just returned from Italy (DFW-PHL-MXP / FCO-PHL-CLT-DFW) and FCO-PHL-CLT was all on the same flight number (719). This is what many airlines call a "direct flight" and what US Airways calls a change of plane. It's treated as if you are flying direct, when you really have a connection. I knew in advance that I would get fewer miles (credit for just FCO-CLT instead of FCO-PHL-CLT), but I didn't know the other headaches I would experience...
1) After booking, I was unable to change seating assignments online. That's a big pain for me, because I like to pick the best available seats when I book, double-check them a week out, then potentially change them over the last few days, if my upgrade gets confirmed, and potentially on the day of departure (before checking in) when bulkhead seats release. I know I can call to change them, but I really prefer to do it myself. I was able to get some decent exit row seats.
2) At my Platinum upgrade window, it didn't even attempt to automatically upgrade PHL-CLT. (I did get upgraded on the CLT-DFW segment.) There were still plenty of seats available in First. I was unable to call US Airways from overseas. I emailed the Platinum desk (three times) and emailed a friend who called (two times) for me. They gave my friend the runaround (saying 719 was an International flight and that I needed to pay about $1000 for an upgrade). The next day (after Golds were upgraded), the open seats in First were all assigned. I never got my upgrade. I finally got responses to my emails, saying that there was no availability.
3) On the day of travel, I tried to get on the upgrade list. At check-in in Rome, they said I had to do it in Philly. At the club in Philly, they said First was full (DUH - that's why I wanted on the upgrade list). I never even got on the upgrade list. It probably wouldn't have mattered (I've never got an upgrade at the gate).
4) When we boarded the plane, our assigned exit row seats were already taken. Somehow, our seats were given away. We had to wait for everyone else to board (it was an extremely full flight) and then pick two available seats. We got the last two seats on the plane, middles in different rows, near the back of the plane.
To make matters even worse, one of the flight attendants came back and chewed us out for not sitting down. I just took the abuse, because I knew if I responded the way I felt like responding we would be kicked off the plane.
I'll be checking closely tomorrow to make sure the miles post right. That's about the only thing left that could go wrong with the flight, and with all of the other problems I wouldn't be surprised for something to go wrong with this, too.
I will NEVER book a flight that includes a multi-stop "direct" flight, ever again. I'm loyal to US Airways because of the status, upgrades and price, but I'll book on another airline before I ever consider another multi-stop "direct" flight.
1) After booking, I was unable to change seating assignments online. That's a big pain for me, because I like to pick the best available seats when I book, double-check them a week out, then potentially change them over the last few days, if my upgrade gets confirmed, and potentially on the day of departure (before checking in) when bulkhead seats release. I know I can call to change them, but I really prefer to do it myself. I was able to get some decent exit row seats.
2) At my Platinum upgrade window, it didn't even attempt to automatically upgrade PHL-CLT. (I did get upgraded on the CLT-DFW segment.) There were still plenty of seats available in First. I was unable to call US Airways from overseas. I emailed the Platinum desk (three times) and emailed a friend who called (two times) for me. They gave my friend the runaround (saying 719 was an International flight and that I needed to pay about $1000 for an upgrade). The next day (after Golds were upgraded), the open seats in First were all assigned. I never got my upgrade. I finally got responses to my emails, saying that there was no availability.
3) On the day of travel, I tried to get on the upgrade list. At check-in in Rome, they said I had to do it in Philly. At the club in Philly, they said First was full (DUH - that's why I wanted on the upgrade list). I never even got on the upgrade list. It probably wouldn't have mattered (I've never got an upgrade at the gate).
4) When we boarded the plane, our assigned exit row seats were already taken. Somehow, our seats were given away. We had to wait for everyone else to board (it was an extremely full flight) and then pick two available seats. We got the last two seats on the plane, middles in different rows, near the back of the plane.
To make matters even worse, one of the flight attendants came back and chewed us out for not sitting down. I just took the abuse, because I knew if I responded the way I felt like responding we would be kicked off the plane.
I'll be checking closely tomorrow to make sure the miles post right. That's about the only thing left that could go wrong with the flight, and with all of the other problems I wouldn't be surprised for something to go wrong with this, too.
I will NEVER book a flight that includes a multi-stop "direct" flight, ever again. I'm loyal to US Airways because of the status, upgrades and price, but I'll book on another airline before I ever consider another multi-stop "direct" flight.
Mar 13, 2009, 12:32 pm
#2
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA, Europe
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I agree with you. I think that these "direct" flights are ripoffs...especially when there's a change of gauge. From what I know, the only reason that these flights exist (and all airlines do this) is for marketing and also to have those flights show up first in reservations systems. Regardless of whether the flight is fully domestic or not, it's the still equally pointless. I can fly, for example, TUS-DFW-SAT on AA, but yet there's one daily "direct" flight which has the same routing so if I get on that one, everyting is exactly the same but I just get less miles and the seating is more confusing.
The only benefit (if it were true) to direct flights would be not having to connect and not having to worry about missing a connection. However, in your case with the change of gauge, you still have to get on a new plane and if your first flight is late, they're not waiting for you even if you're on the same flight number. Even if the direct flight is on the same plane the whole way, if the first part of the flight is delayed, the airline may substitute another aircraft for the second leg. All of this defeats the purpose of direct flights. WN is the only airline I think that has true direct flights.
The only benefit (if it were true) to direct flights would be not having to connect and not having to worry about missing a connection. However, in your case with the change of gauge, you still have to get on a new plane and if your first flight is late, they're not waiting for you even if you're on the same flight number. Even if the direct flight is on the same plane the whole way, if the first part of the flight is delayed, the airline may substitute another aircraft for the second leg. All of this defeats the purpose of direct flights. WN is the only airline I think that has true direct flights.
Mar 13, 2009, 1:07 pm
#3
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The airline definition of a direct flight has always been from point A to point B with an intermediate stop. And it has tripped up more than a few passengers who are surprised to learn their flight will be stopping somewhere.
Back in the old days, you didn't even have to disembark. It was a single aircraft and you didn't have to change planes. But then airlines got clever and began switching aircraft, but preserving a flight number so they could sell a single flight number from, for example, LAX to LHR even though the passenger would still have to get off and change actual planes at PHL. To me, that is a connection and should absolutely not be advertised/marketed as a single flight number. This is something that should be banned by the FAA all together so the playing field is level.
As to the OPs original post, I think the biggest problem was with how US handles the domestic upgrades for an elite member when they are on a larger intl. itinerary. I'm sure others here have experienced similar problems, unfortunately. But this is another fallout of the fantastic reservation system they migrated to a few years ago.
Back in the old days, you didn't even have to disembark. It was a single aircraft and you didn't have to change planes. But then airlines got clever and began switching aircraft, but preserving a flight number so they could sell a single flight number from, for example, LAX to LHR even though the passenger would still have to get off and change actual planes at PHL. To me, that is a connection and should absolutely not be advertised/marketed as a single flight number. This is something that should be banned by the FAA all together so the playing field is level.
As to the OPs original post, I think the biggest problem was with how US handles the domestic upgrades for an elite member when they are on a larger intl. itinerary. I'm sure others here have experienced similar problems, unfortunately. But this is another fallout of the fantastic reservation system they migrated to a few years ago.
Mar 13, 2009, 2:13 pm
#4
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The airline definition of a direct flight has always been from point A to point B with an intermediate stop. And it has tripped up more than a few passengers who are surprised to learn their flight will be stopping somewhere.
Back in the old days, you didn't even have to disembark. It was a single aircraft and you didn't have to change planes. But then airlines got clever and began switching aircraft, but preserving a flight number so they could sell a single flight number from, for example, LAX to LHR even though the passenger would still have to get off and change actual planes at PHL. To me, that is a connection and should absolutely not be advertised/marketed as a single flight number. This is something that should be banned by the FAA all together so the playing field is level.
Back in the old days, you didn't even have to disembark. It was a single aircraft and you didn't have to change planes. But then airlines got clever and began switching aircraft, but preserving a flight number so they could sell a single flight number from, for example, LAX to LHR even though the passenger would still have to get off and change actual planes at PHL. To me, that is a connection and should absolutely not be advertised/marketed as a single flight number. This is something that should be banned by the FAA all together so the playing field is level.
Section 2.01 of the Terms of Transportation (Definitions):
Direct Flight: Flight does not require a change of aircraft from point of origin to destination but makes one or more planned intermediate stops en route to customers final destination.
Connecting Flight: Requires customers to change aircraft at an intermediate point for the continuation of their trip to their destination.
Mar 13, 2009, 2:34 pm
#5
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Domestic experience with "Direct Flight - with a stop"
While different than the OP's experience, I did not feel this was worth a new thread. Be careful with the domestic direct flight with a stop routing as well. Several years ago - I was flying RDU - MHT "direct" with a stop in DCA. First off - these are a pain if you are a segment accruer because they count as one segment only.
The flight left late and got in late - I was not worried because I was a through passenger. We get to DCA and everyone but me gets off the plane. the FA asks if something is wrong and I reply, "nope I'm going on to MHT with you guys." She says she is confused because they are all going on to somewhere else and I have to de-plane. I showed her my boarding pass - singular which listed my departure city as RDU and my arrival city as MHT. She didn't really understand and told me I had to go into the terminal - suddenly I was worried.
Inside, the GA tells me the flight for MHT left 25 minutes ago. I said, "well isn't that odd because I was on it." She had no clue what I was talkking about. The second leg, (DCA - MCH) was the same flight# as RDU-MHT. I showed her my boarding pass and she was even more confused. We get a supervisor and I ask how this happened. More confusion. They finally understand what I am saying and figure out there was an aircraft change due to the inbound IRROPs. Apparently I was the only through passenger and it wasn't worth me making my whole trip for them to wait.
Guess what, no more flights to MHT for four hours. They re-book me on AA, I make the terminal change and AA will not let me board because US never ticketed the change. That flight departs without me. Back to US who gets me on a flight to BOS. I ended up missing my meeting in MCH and having to re-schedule the next two days.
I have never again flown Direct with a stop.
The flight left late and got in late - I was not worried because I was a through passenger. We get to DCA and everyone but me gets off the plane. the FA asks if something is wrong and I reply, "nope I'm going on to MHT with you guys." She says she is confused because they are all going on to somewhere else and I have to de-plane. I showed her my boarding pass - singular which listed my departure city as RDU and my arrival city as MHT. She didn't really understand and told me I had to go into the terminal - suddenly I was worried.
Inside, the GA tells me the flight for MHT left 25 minutes ago. I said, "well isn't that odd because I was on it." She had no clue what I was talkking about. The second leg, (DCA - MCH) was the same flight# as RDU-MHT. I showed her my boarding pass and she was even more confused. We get a supervisor and I ask how this happened. More confusion. They finally understand what I am saying and figure out there was an aircraft change due to the inbound IRROPs. Apparently I was the only through passenger and it wasn't worth me making my whole trip for them to wait.
Guess what, no more flights to MHT for four hours. They re-book me on AA, I make the terminal change and AA will not let me board because US never ticketed the change. That flight departs without me. Back to US who gets me on a flight to BOS. I ended up missing my meeting in MCH and having to re-schedule the next two days.
I have never again flown Direct with a stop.
Last edited by brobab; Mar 13, 2009 at 2:40 pm Reason: Poor typing skills
Mar 13, 2009, 2:41 pm
#6
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Marketing a flight with a change of aircraft as a "direct" flight is blatant false advertising. No airline should be allowed by the FAA to do this unless there is no change of aircraft. And US needs to develop a way to recognize separate legs of a "direct" flight so that Preferreds get the upgrades to which they are entitled.
the moral of this story is to never, ever, under any circumstances, book a direct flight.
Mar 13, 2009, 4:03 pm
#7
Join Date: Apr 2006
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There are really two separate issues involved here - "direct" flights and "change of gage flights".
A direct flight will normally not involve a change of aircraft. Occasiionally, due to maintainence or delays, a change of airplanes will occur but it is the exception.
A change of gage flight will always involve a change of planes - that's the change of gage. As stated earlier, the practice began as a way of getting a flight to display higher up the list of possible flights in the GDS displays - it would come after non-stops but before connecting flights with two flight numbers. The goal was to get the flight on the 1st page of the display since travel agents booked nearly all flights from those displayed on the first page of their display. DOT cracked down on the marketing of change of gage flights by making the carriers reveal that they involved a change of aircraft at an intermediate point. If you look at the US website, you'll see that FCO-CLT operates as a single flight number with a stop in PHL where a change of aircraft occurs.
Jim
A direct flight will normally not involve a change of aircraft. Occasiionally, due to maintainence or delays, a change of airplanes will occur but it is the exception.
A change of gage flight will always involve a change of planes - that's the change of gage. As stated earlier, the practice began as a way of getting a flight to display higher up the list of possible flights in the GDS displays - it would come after non-stops but before connecting flights with two flight numbers. The goal was to get the flight on the 1st page of the display since travel agents booked nearly all flights from those displayed on the first page of their display. DOT cracked down on the marketing of change of gage flights by making the carriers reveal that they involved a change of aircraft at an intermediate point. If you look at the US website, you'll see that FCO-CLT operates as a single flight number with a stop in PHL where a change of aircraft occurs.
Jim
Mar 13, 2009, 4:14 pm
#8
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Most of the problems identified happen whether it's a change of gage or not.
Mar 15, 2009, 6:48 am
#9
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FAA or DOT issue?
Would this type of misleading advertising be an issue for the FAA or the DOT? In this article, Spirit Airlines was nailed by the DOT for deceptive pricing. I'm no expert on aviation governing bodies but I would have to believe that if the DOT can stop Spirit's marketing shenanigans that it would also be responsible for the "direct but with a stop" issue.
When, last year, it was exposed that the FAA was in bed with SWA over inspections the general public became aware that the FAA was created with two missions: safety and promoting air travel. Are they involved with pricing, marketing, and any other non-operational issues?
When, last year, it was exposed that the FAA was in bed with SWA over inspections the general public became aware that the FAA was created with two missions: safety and promoting air travel. Are they involved with pricing, marketing, and any other non-operational issues?
Mar 15, 2009, 10:32 am
#10
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Advertising would be the DOT. I doubt they'd do anything as long as the airline is properly disclosing the stop on a direct flight - they've been around as long as I can remember.
Jim
Jim
Mar 15, 2009, 12:56 pm
#11
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I've taken MANY "direct" flights with a change of plane - it seems to be almost standard throughout the industry on international flights. Why would an airline take a 330 or a 747 that just came in from an international flight and use it for the next leg on the "direct" flight to podunk or wherever it goes next?
The Spirit case was over the way the fares were being presented and had nothing to do with "direct" vs. "non-stop".
If they're advertised as "direct" and NOT "non-stop" then the airline has done nothing wrong - even if you have to change planes - it's not unusual and it's not specific to US.
The Spirit case was over the way the fares were being presented and had nothing to do with "direct" vs. "non-stop".
If they're advertised as "direct" and NOT "non-stop" then the airline has done nothing wrong - even if you have to change planes - it's not unusual and it's not specific to US.
Mar 15, 2009, 1:38 pm
#12
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My issue with it wasn't that it was not non-stop or even that it involved a change of plane. My issue is all the consequences (awarded less miles and segments than actually flown, inability to change seats online, no automatic upgrades, inability to get upgrades through customer service, inability to get on the upgrade list, seats given away [not sure if it was related], etc.). If I would have known even a couple of those consequences (the only one I knew was that I would get fewer miles), I never would have chosen the "direct" flight.
Mar 15, 2009, 4:58 pm
#13
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Why didnt you just take the PHL to DFW flight and cutout CLT..after a long day like a few extra miles isnt worth it..@:-)
Mar 15, 2009, 8:15 pm
#14
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I don't remember what was available when I booked it, but I think the FCO-PHL-DFW wasn't available for the same rate. (We got the tickets for $449 each, all in.) I tried to stand by for PHL-DFW once we got to PHL, but since that flight left after the PHL-CLT-DFW route, they wouldn't let me do it.
Mar 15, 2009, 8:40 pm
#15
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I think that your experience certainly merits a complaint letter to US with a copy to the DOT.