Four Points Pie! Yum! Not Really!
Apr 21, 2007, 12:56 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lehighton, PA, USA,HH Gold, US Plat
Posts: 467
Four Points Pie! Yum! Not Really!
US has internally announced that the cheesecake will be gone from First and instead we will be served Four Points Pie along with a Four Points napkin along with our plastic cups. First goes down again.
When I go into a fine restaurant I have a selection of wines from a wine list. I don't get forced on me Chicken McNuggets as an appetizer followed by Campbells' Select Soup, followed by a salad with Marie's Dressing on it, followed by Perdue Chicken with Rice A Roni to go with my Seattle's Best coffee and a Four Points Pie al a mode with Cold Creamery Ice Cream/
It's just down right tacky for first class. You want to push it in coach, fine, but like I have said before don't call it "First" and a lot of these complaints would go away, but expectations are reality.
PS-Art this is your answer to your efforts. They really don't care about anything but the bottom line.
When I go into a fine restaurant I have a selection of wines from a wine list. I don't get forced on me Chicken McNuggets as an appetizer followed by Campbells' Select Soup, followed by a salad with Marie's Dressing on it, followed by Perdue Chicken with Rice A Roni to go with my Seattle's Best coffee and a Four Points Pie al a mode with Cold Creamery Ice Cream/
It's just down right tacky for first class. You want to push it in coach, fine, but like I have said before don't call it "First" and a lot of these complaints would go away, but expectations are reality.
PS-Art this is your answer to your efforts. They really don't care about anything but the bottom line.
Apr 21, 2007, 1:13 pm
#2
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Programs: DL Silver, UA Silver, Marriott Lifetime Silver, IHG Plat, Hilton Silver
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There is already a thread on this at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=684795
Apr 21, 2007, 6:40 pm
#3
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Stuck Between the Moon and CLD or SAN, Your local Taco Bell
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Posts: 3,510
I really fail to see how switching from all-cheesecake, all the time to pecan pie and a new selection next month devalues the product AT ALL. Because the napkin says Four Points and not US Airways?
This really seems like a win-win for everyone. We get more variety, they save a few bucks.
This really seems like a win-win for everyone. We get more variety, they save a few bucks.
Apr 21, 2007, 6:49 pm
#4
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Posts: 31,016
U
When I go into a fine restaurant I have a selection of wines from a wine list. I don't get forced on me Chicken McNuggets as an appetizer followed by Campbells' Select Soup, followed by a salad with Marie's Dressing on it, followed by Perdue Chicken with Rice A Roni to go with my Seattle's Best coffee and a Four Points Pie al a mode with Cold Creamery Ice Cream/
When I go into a fine restaurant I have a selection of wines from a wine list. I don't get forced on me Chicken McNuggets as an appetizer followed by Campbells' Select Soup, followed by a salad with Marie's Dressing on it, followed by Perdue Chicken with Rice A Roni to go with my Seattle's Best coffee and a Four Points Pie al a mode with Cold Creamery Ice Cream/
Before you know it, the folks at the Sandcastle will think the FF'ers are just a bunch of whiny brats....
Apr 21, 2007, 6:55 pm
#5
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A lovely little town filled with cows
Programs: US2, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 3,284
US F isn't a fine restaurant. Neither are any other airlines. The entire food program could be improved, but I hardly see a switch in pie brand and logo on a napkin as worthly of a mention, let alone two threads of complaints.
Before you know it, the folks at the Sandcastle will think the FF'ers are just a bunch of whiny brats....
Before you know it, the folks at the Sandcastle will think the FF'ers are just a bunch of whiny brats....
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I fail to see how a change in dessert really devalues a product. In any other environment, it would probably be seen as a positive.
Seriously though - what's up with this "devaluing" the F product line? I have to think those damned BOA Visa pitches are far more devaluing and annoying than a change in dessert is?
Just my opinion...
Apr 22, 2007, 4:26 pm
#6
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Programs: UA 2P, AA LT Gold, Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 3,159
I have abandoned US for UA and am flying a lot in UA F cabin.
They serve Ely's chocolate cheesecake a lot for dessert. UA also serves Trader Vic's entrees on spme of its routes, for instance last night on my NRT-TPE leg. I don't agree with abeflyer, merely using a tradename does not degrade the product.
Now on UA, I am getting hot mixed nuts in a porcelain bowl, and real glasses and real silverware with a linen tablecloth. That is a real improvement over what I was living with on US, when I got an upgrade (as a CP I used to run 97%, with the games they were playing with holdbacks and Go First that dropped to maybe 50% - but now I don't care).
They serve Ely's chocolate cheesecake a lot for dessert. UA also serves Trader Vic's entrees on spme of its routes, for instance last night on my NRT-TPE leg. I don't agree with abeflyer, merely using a tradename does not degrade the product.
Now on UA, I am getting hot mixed nuts in a porcelain bowl, and real glasses and real silverware with a linen tablecloth. That is a real improvement over what I was living with on US, when I got an upgrade (as a CP I used to run 97%, with the games they were playing with holdbacks and Go First that dropped to maybe 50% - but now I don't care).
Apr 22, 2007, 6:44 pm
#7
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: From: PWM
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Well, I for one sort of agree with abeflyer. Here's why.
I would love Marie Callendar's dressings and other brand name items on flights. And I may be among the few posting here who've actually eaten a piece of Four Points Pie (twice, thank you).
All in all, the pie is good folks. That's not really my issue here.
For me, my issue is that Four Points Hotels, as a brand, has always been a screwed up mess. As a very long term Platinum member of the SPG program, I can tell you that while the chain is improving, their heritage has been pretty sad. In sum, no brand consistency, marginal (or worse) hotels in marginal (or worse) locations, very few new construction properties. From my vantage point, a very weak offering among some very stiff, and well run competition (think Courtyards, HGIs, etc).
Four Points brand managers are obviously trying their level best to find another way to communicate to biz travellers that their brand is becoming newer, fresher and more intune with what comforts road warriors seek out. For some odd reason, about a year ago, they decided to run with this PIE idea and have spent I-don't-know-how-much on the campaign. This new plan to serve their pie slices in F (or whatever I should call it) on US just feels a little edgy to me. It's the same way I'd feel if the pie were branded Holiday Inn. In a word, ugh.
So, in the end, I think the quality of the dessert offering will actually rise, and for that.....I'm pleased. But I do agree that this is a sellout to a marginal hotel brand and that's what I really don't care for.
Food for thought: you can bet your last penny that Four Points brand managers had their sights on several domestic airlines for this program. You can quickly see that they had to get to the bottom of their list before they found any takers. Case closed.
I would love Marie Callendar's dressings and other brand name items on flights. And I may be among the few posting here who've actually eaten a piece of Four Points Pie (twice, thank you).
All in all, the pie is good folks. That's not really my issue here.
For me, my issue is that Four Points Hotels, as a brand, has always been a screwed up mess. As a very long term Platinum member of the SPG program, I can tell you that while the chain is improving, their heritage has been pretty sad. In sum, no brand consistency, marginal (or worse) hotels in marginal (or worse) locations, very few new construction properties. From my vantage point, a very weak offering among some very stiff, and well run competition (think Courtyards, HGIs, etc).
Four Points brand managers are obviously trying their level best to find another way to communicate to biz travellers that their brand is becoming newer, fresher and more intune with what comforts road warriors seek out. For some odd reason, about a year ago, they decided to run with this PIE idea and have spent I-don't-know-how-much on the campaign. This new plan to serve their pie slices in F (or whatever I should call it) on US just feels a little edgy to me. It's the same way I'd feel if the pie were branded Holiday Inn. In a word, ugh.
So, in the end, I think the quality of the dessert offering will actually rise, and for that.....I'm pleased. But I do agree that this is a sellout to a marginal hotel brand and that's what I really don't care for.
Food for thought: you can bet your last penny that Four Points brand managers had their sights on several domestic airlines for this program. You can quickly see that they had to get to the bottom of their list before they found any takers. Case closed.
Apr 22, 2007, 7:04 pm
#8
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
Programs: AA Platinum; US Gold; DL Silver
Posts: 941
The problem isn't the branding of the pie -- it's the transformation of the inflight experience from "we'll get you to your destination safely, reliably and as pleasantly as possible" to "now that you're trapped and strapped into these seats, we're going to assault your senses with advertising as a captive audience."
I'm in marketing. I *LOVE* advertising. But flying is stressful enough without having constant, unending pitches forced down my throat in the plane -- from the inflight video advertising to the flight attendants hawking credit cards to "four points pie."
The tray tables, I don't care about, I can ignore them. But everything else is just absurd.
The most hilariously sad part of this story is that OTHER airlines do this sort of tawdry in-your-face advertising too -- in Europe, it's RyanAir, a discount carrier.
Of course, RyanAir will fly me on a promotional segment from London's secondary airport to Frankfurt's secondary airport for 99 pence (about two bucks). Whereas US Airways is still charging full fares (often higher than the competition) yet treating its customers like RyanAir passengers.
It doesn't work.
Either US Airways needs to become a cheap-fare airline that runs promotions on its customers to pay the bills -- knowing customers will put up with it because US's fare is 1/10th that of a real airline. . . or it needs to insert *some* dignity back into the in-flight process to preserve its premium passengers.
I'm in marketing. I *LOVE* advertising. But flying is stressful enough without having constant, unending pitches forced down my throat in the plane -- from the inflight video advertising to the flight attendants hawking credit cards to "four points pie."
The tray tables, I don't care about, I can ignore them. But everything else is just absurd.
The most hilariously sad part of this story is that OTHER airlines do this sort of tawdry in-your-face advertising too -- in Europe, it's RyanAir, a discount carrier.
Of course, RyanAir will fly me on a promotional segment from London's secondary airport to Frankfurt's secondary airport for 99 pence (about two bucks). Whereas US Airways is still charging full fares (often higher than the competition) yet treating its customers like RyanAir passengers.
It doesn't work.
Either US Airways needs to become a cheap-fare airline that runs promotions on its customers to pay the bills -- knowing customers will put up with it because US's fare is 1/10th that of a real airline. . . or it needs to insert *some* dignity back into the in-flight process to preserve its premium passengers.
Apr 22, 2007, 7:15 pm
#9
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,452
US F isn't a fine restaurant. Neither are any other airlines. The entire food program could be improved, but I hardly see a switch in pie brand and logo on a napkin as worthly of a mention, let alone two threads of complaints.
Before you know it, the folks at the Sandcastle will think the FF'ers are just a bunch of whiny brats....
Before you know it, the folks at the Sandcastle will think the FF'ers are just a bunch of whiny brats....
Apr 22, 2007, 7:24 pm
#10
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
Programs: AA Platinum; US Gold; DL Silver
Posts: 941
If US wants to insult its best customers, they're welcome to do so. Detroit insulted its best customers too, through similarly crappy product and complaints that carbuyers who wanted their cars to last for more than two years were "whiny" and "unrealistic."
Then along came the Japanese (and Koreans) who delivered superior quality and reliability at a lower price. Pow bang boom, adios Detroit.
US Airways is the American Motors of the airline biz. In the midst of a punishing recession in the early 1980s, American Motors was trumpeting how well it was doing with its crappy cars -- making money when Ford and Chrysler were almost going under.
They kept making the cars cheaper and cheaper, eventually merging with Renault in a disastrous move that replaced their old but tough simple cars with ...... unreliable French-designed tin cans. Kaboom -- within a year they were out of business, with Chrysler picking up the pieces they wanted from the bargain bin.
The same can happen to US Airways -- especially if it (and its fanboys) persist in their insistence that customer complaints are "whining."
Then along came the Japanese (and Koreans) who delivered superior quality and reliability at a lower price. Pow bang boom, adios Detroit.
US Airways is the American Motors of the airline biz. In the midst of a punishing recession in the early 1980s, American Motors was trumpeting how well it was doing with its crappy cars -- making money when Ford and Chrysler were almost going under.
They kept making the cars cheaper and cheaper, eventually merging with Renault in a disastrous move that replaced their old but tough simple cars with ...... unreliable French-designed tin cans. Kaboom -- within a year they were out of business, with Chrysler picking up the pieces they wanted from the bargain bin.
The same can happen to US Airways -- especially if it (and its fanboys) persist in their insistence that customer complaints are "whining."
Apr 22, 2007, 7:35 pm
#11
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Liverpool, England
Posts: 1,080
US has internally announced that the cheesecake will be gone from First and instead we will be served Four Points Pie along with a Four Points napkin along with our plastic cups. First goes down again.
When I go into a fine restaurant I have a selection of wines from a wine list. I don't get forced on me Chicken McNuggets as an appetizer followed by Campbells' Select Soup, followed by a salad with Marie's Dressing on it, followed by Perdue Chicken with Rice A Roni to go with my Seattle's Best coffee and a Four Points Pie al a mode with Cold Creamery Ice Cream/
It's just down right tacky for first class. You want to push it in coach, fine, but like I have said before don't call it "First" and a lot of these complaints would go away, but expectations are reality.
PS-Art this is your answer to your efforts. They really don't care about anything but the bottom line.
When I go into a fine restaurant I have a selection of wines from a wine list. I don't get forced on me Chicken McNuggets as an appetizer followed by Campbells' Select Soup, followed by a salad with Marie's Dressing on it, followed by Perdue Chicken with Rice A Roni to go with my Seattle's Best coffee and a Four Points Pie al a mode with Cold Creamery Ice Cream/
It's just down right tacky for first class. You want to push it in coach, fine, but like I have said before don't call it "First" and a lot of these complaints would go away, but expectations are reality.
PS-Art this is your answer to your efforts. They really don't care about anything but the bottom line.
Apr 22, 2007, 7:37 pm
#12
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
Programs: AA Platinum; US Gold; DL Silver
Posts: 941
Considering that 95%+ of US's capacity is domestic, y'all in Europe are sitting on the sidelines.
Four Points Pie is a play on a brand of cheap hotel here in the states.
US Airways serving Four Points Pie in domestic first would be like British Airways serving Travelodge Tart on Club Europe. Zero class.
Four Points Pie is a play on a brand of cheap hotel here in the states.
US Airways serving Four Points Pie in domestic first would be like British Airways serving Travelodge Tart on Club Europe. Zero class.
Apr 22, 2007, 8:40 pm
#13
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: From: PWM
Programs: United GS, Fairmont Platinum,SPG LTPlat, Hilton Diamond, MarriottGold..like the rest of the world
Posts: 4,401
The problem isn't the branding of the pie -- it's the transformation of the inflight experience from "we'll get you to your destination safely, reliably and as pleasantly as possible" to "now that you're trapped and strapped into these seats, we're going to assault your senses with advertising as a captive audience."
But what we have here is a Holiday Inn-esque brand of mid tier hotel offering their recipe from their mediocre hotels on a domestic airline's F product. And you can bet that US is paying not one cent for any of these pies.
Just weird. The Travelodge Tart is spot on, by the way.
Apr 22, 2007, 9:09 pm
#14
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A lovely little town filled with cows
Programs: US2, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 3,284
But I do think the branding they've selected is a significant part of the issue I have with it. If the pie were branded something upscale that would enhance my sensibilities about the pie itself, I'd be much more forgiving. (And maybe even a little intrigued.)
But what we have here is a Holiday Inn-esque brand of mid tier hotel offering their recipe from their mediocre hotels on a domestic airline's F product. And you can bet that US is paying not one cent for any of these pies.
Just weird. The Travelodge Tart is spot on, by the way.
But what we have here is a Holiday Inn-esque brand of mid tier hotel offering their recipe from their mediocre hotels on a domestic airline's F product. And you can bet that US is paying not one cent for any of these pies.
Just weird. The Travelodge Tart is spot on, by the way.
I never knew about it nor did I care one way or the other. I stick with Hiltons, and I know that Hampton Inn is about as low as you can go. Is FourPoints the equivalent of Hampton Inn?
I wonder if there are others who wouldn't know the difference?
Apr 23, 2007, 6:21 am
#15
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: From: PWM
Programs: United GS, Fairmont Platinum,SPG LTPlat, Hilton Diamond, MarriottGold..like the rest of the world
Posts: 4,401
Well, kind of. Certainly the same price category. But, Hamptons all follow a very close model whereby the hotels all look the same, the rooms are all very standardized and there is a substantial comp breakfast. Four Points offers none of that. The closest domestic model, I think, is Holiday Inn.
I'm sure the vast majority of Americans have never even heard of Four Points Hotels. The brand has been around for gosh, nearly 15 years, but unless you're a SPG junkie, I'm sure it's entirely possible to avoid them completely without meaning to! In the grand scheme of things, this is the very reason that the brand managers are looking to get their name out in any way possible.
I'm sure the vast majority of Americans have never even heard of Four Points Hotels. The brand has been around for gosh, nearly 15 years, but unless you're a SPG junkie, I'm sure it's entirely possible to avoid them completely without meaning to! In the grand scheme of things, this is the very reason that the brand managers are looking to get their name out in any way possible.