Art234

Here we go again....why don't you both stop giving Bob a hard time and why don't we all work together to make the new US Airways a success? It appears that your issues are more personal than organizational.

FACT--FFOCUS has more than 300 members, ranging from US1 to US4. We are confident that our membership represents a cross section of US Airways customers.

FACT--contrary to what you may or may not believe, our issues are NOT solely of perks and taking up the cause of "whining" elites. Our issues are far more substantive, and the benefits obtained will benefit ALL customers, not just FFOCUS members.

Whether you like it or not, the company is more likely to listen to a group of 300 than they are an individual, even though it ALL helps. You are welcome to join us, and if you are not happy with the way the group is being run, why not try to join the policy board when an opening occurs?

We DO realize that change is in the wind, and we are realistic enough to see that we're not going to like all the changes. Some of the changes, however, are not competitive with other airlines, so before it forces us to look elsewhere, we bring it to their attention. In some cases they see our points and in other cases they don't.

Our issues with the previous management were not related to our membership being a bunch of "whining" elites. It was more of the fact that the previous management lied, we called them on it, they didn't like it, they got mad, took their ball and went home. I will not get into details here, but if you want more, email or PM me.

So here we are starting a new page with a new management who SEEMS to know what they're doing, and who appears to actually want to run a successful airline instead of line their own pockets. Why don't you give us a chance instead of deriding Bob all the time?

What are my issues? Read on:

1. RATIONAL fares. Notice not GO fares, but FAIR fairs. $600 for the shuttle is ridiculous. $250-$300 is not only fair, but very profitable. $1000 r/t LGA-CLT is outrageous, but $300-$400 is FAIR and profitable...You get the picture. The airline industry has to run like a business..it has to be able to make money. When costs go up, prices should go up, but it has to be fair to both parties. I don't think any of us want to be subsidizing the loser fares any more. Those who want to spend $99 to fly coast to coast are welcome to try WN or B6.

2. Reward customers for spending more, rather than penalizing them for spending less....it goes back to the founding of this group when we were the "cockroaches". DM tried to change over 3 years ago by denying Elite Qualification miles on all fares other than B or Y or higher. The outcry was overwhelming, and in less than 2 weeks they gave up on the change. DL reduced "EQM" accrual by 50% for discount fares, and eventually they had to change as well...although it took them a couple of years. By incentivizing the extra spend, they see incremental increases in revenue.

3. A COMPETITIVE product....You can't be all things to all people. If you are going to be a full service airline than be one. If you are going to be a true LCC then be one...do not nickel and dime your customers. The contrasts here would be UA on the full service side, and WN on the LCC side. We won't rant on little things, but you will note that some things have changed. The pretzel embargo lasted a month. The outcry against off shore res agents who don't understand English was deafening--the company is now beefing up the Preferred res staff, and is reconsidering the effectiveness of outsourcing the rest. This is positive change. Regarding the power outlets on the Airbus, they were surprised at the customer sentiment against getting rid of them--to the point that they are reconsidering.

Did we effect these changes by ourselves? Absolutely not. But one would like to think we were heard....

I think I have said enough for now. I think we all want the same thing...a secure and successful US Airways. I don't think you disagree with the message, just the way it's being delivered...

It ain't us against you, so let's not try to make it so.

Thanks

AZ Travels the World

Art234, I applaud your approach and perspective. While I don't have a sense of FFOCUS, its true role, credibility or ability to affect change, I think your perspective on the state of the industry and US's position in it, as well as the approach to potentially making a difference with the new management, is well-reasoned and realistic.

safetymom

There is no need to attack each other here. As my mother used to say "If you can't say anything nice don't say anything."

phillyd2

I too applaud Art234. Surprised how such a seemingly intelligent guy hangs with such a crowd.

BTW Art, you are not really going to talk to the 5th. largest airline about their fare structure, are you? We all have to understand that airfares do not and never will make sense in the conventional "Wal-Mart" type way. At the end of the year the company must make a profit, period. That’s all that really matters to the company and its shareholders. This means that a 737 full of passengers paying $99 will lose money flying from PHL to Florida because they must charge so little to compete against those like SW. Where they have no such competition they will need to charge seemingly crazy fairs (remember PHL - PIT at $ 900 for a 45 min. flight?) as long as on Dec. 31 they made more money than they spend. Fair in business is what a customer will pay. The other type of fair did not do too well in the old USSR. The free market will and should set the prices.

Trust me if you do sit down with these guys and talk about fares you will lose whatever creditability you think you have.

As for "Reward customers for spending more" I'm not sure what you mean. First class is available for many flights if you want to pay for it. Fully refundable fares are also available to those who what to pay for it. I guess that you are speaking about perks. I too love upgrading with miles to sit in Envoy (do it about 8 times per year)after only paying $600 for a PHL - FRA flight but most elites remind me of those mad that they did not get a bonus at the end of the year. US has a responsibility to take you from A to B safely. You get the class of service you paid for. Period. Any other perks should be treated as such, not as a entitlement. When I sit in a $ 6000 seat that I only paid 1/10th for, I am not looking at everying with a critical eye as others. Nope, I understand that I'm lucky and say thank you. If I want the right to complan about how Envoy is not what it was then I should spend the $ 6000. Again, the days of government price regulation and guaranteed profits are as dead as the Eagles appear to be today. You will never again see the type of FC service that we so enjoyed in the past. You make it sound like I'm happy about this which is wrong. However I do accept the new business model in the industry and am happy that US is still around as a even stronger company then before - they did all this why your group was trashing its management. To me they pulled off one of the truly amazing 4th quarter comebacks of all time.

As for your comment about a competitive product, here again I respectfully (and I really mean that) disagree. Some years ago I posted what I would do to save US and not to pat myself on the back but they are doing exactly what I thought they should. To remind you in case my insightful past post I think that JetBlue has done it right. A LCC with extra benefits such as great service and TV screens at each seat. If this is done right maybe, just maybe, people are willing to spend a few extra dollars to fly US. To my way of thinking no other model is possible. A full service airline with all of the past service is dead because nobody will pay such a price premium. The SW LCC model is not doable because then you are just offering a "me too" product and would kill your brand.

It amuses me that your group takes credit for things you had nothing to do with. AW admitted that they did not even know of the silly decision to remove power outlets and when they heard about this silly policy - changed it right away. So NO you were not heard at all and my your own words have yet to sit down with them.

Again, please leave them alone and let them build the new airline. I would rather you guys spent your efforts trying to get the old US employees to change their bad attitudes (not all for sure but enough) in this new business model and do a better job to serve their bosses, the customers. Pitch in and help clean the planes between flights to reduce costs and increase time in the air. They should learn the real meaning of customer service. I said it before but a while ago my bags missed a connection and the Baggage Service agent was so rude that I almost felt like I should apologize to her that her company lost my bags. You want to kill any company? Bad customer service is the fastest route. The new management team at AW understand this and I hope the workers come around as well.

dingo

Amen.

Art234

PhillyD2,

Again we're going to have to agree to disagree. Rational fares were implemented by HP or US West as it is now called and they do work. I merely advocate them spreading east, and my information is that they will eventually. And for what it's worth I have had many conversations with execs at US regarding fares, both past and present, and they have acknowledged that there is alot of truth in what I say. I have an ongoing dialog with one of the few who stayed. Does it make a difference? I doubt it, but there is definitely a line of communication, and for whatever reason I have seen some changes in some markets.

Next, I never said, nor did I try to give FFOCUS credit for, any of the changes which were made in our favor. I said I'd like to think we had an effect, but was very clear that it was the total volume of communication and protest from customers, NOT just our members. There are a couple of cases where I know we had an influence, but I only know that as a result of direct communication from the executive involved. I make no false claims here, and never have.

Regarding product, again we will respectfully (and I mean RESPECTFULLY) disagree again. Contrasting a full service airline like United to a no frills service like WN was my point. IF US wants to offer a full service product, they need to make it competitve with the UA's AA's, CO's etc. in the world, which currently it is not. It's not about glass vs. plastic, or stuff like that. BUT the other airlines manage to serve meals on two hour flights in selected markets, with full linen and glass service. UA has been innovative in offering 3 class premium service on its transcons, and they are always near full. On the other hand, no frills carriers like WN set expectations low to begin with and few if any passengers are disappointed (except perhaps the drunks who always seem to make it onto "Airline"). I do agree with you about B6, and have flown them once, and again, they met my lowered expectations.

Otherwise, there are ways in which we DEFINITELY made a difference, if not to the operation then to the morale of the employees. Our gifts to flight crews, candy runs and visits to res centers made a difference in the morale of the people we touched. Although it means little in the general scheme of things, it meant alot to those we visited, and to be honest, I feel pretty good about it.

Regarding the old management, I won't even respond to that. They managed to sell the place and pocket a fortune on the way out the door. Again, we must agree to disagree.

In addition, I hope to take part in a "consumer advisory board" like the one I took part in with the old US a few years ago, if that concept is retained, and hope to continue contributing both information and revenue to the new US for many years to come.

At the end of the day, you have choices to make and so do I. My choice is that I am working hard to help FFOCUS be an effective voice for those who choose to have it speak for them, and look forward to a dialog with a management who should want to talk to best customers from time to time, whether or not they belong to our group. Whether you choose to be a part of our group at some point or remain on your own, I still think you want the same end result. Your choice is to fly who you want and to communicate any way you choose.

At this point I think we have beaten a dead horse, so I wish you luck, and I still owe you a cup of coffee in PHL one of these days.

Best regards,
Art

PineyBob

I speak for the members of FFOCUS and myself. As Art pointed out we have a wide cross section of members. Some are even gate Agents and HP Flight Attendents, pilots and other interested parties. We share ONE common goal and that is to see US Airways succeed often for diverse reasons. If you share that goal your voice is welcome in the choir. We exclude no one!

Philly2d it's highly likely that we have a member or two that has a flying pattern very similar to yours. That's what amazes me about the organization. The diversity of flying patterns is to be candid surprising. I now see the dilema that Marketing folks at airlines face. FF'ers and VFF'ers are not some monolithic group. The wants needs & desires make us as different as snowflakes.

Philly2d, how could i possibly speak for you? I don't even know you. I'm truly sorry you feel such hostility towards me. I have no experience in runing or leading and organization. Heck I just wanted to get some pins made so we could recognize ourselves when we traveled. Then it morphed into an actual grass roots organization that takes on issues it believes are important.

You want to personally attack me? Be my guest! I was a bouncer in a bar and after being confronted by a dozen or so outlaw bikers on a regular basis and living to tell about it, I don't intimidate all that easily.

I do the best I can, if it's not good enough, I'll live secure in the fact that I tried to do something positive instead of standing on the sideline taking potshots. You want to denegrate and insult what I do for a living that's OK too because I'm doing OK there too.

So come and join us if you like Philly2d and McFlyPhl. If not feel free to continue your assault because the worlds softest pillow is a clear conscience and I sleep on pure goose down. I'm done defending myself as I have no reason too! Vaya Con Dios my friends!

McFlyPHL

Art, I am 100% in agreement with you that we all have similar agendas. Where we differ is the value of FFOCUS. There's just as must pro- as there is anti-FFOCUS sentiment it would seem (just from looking at this thread and a couple of others).

We all want rational fares. As I would put it, there ought to be some fare compression. Fewer $99 transcons and fewer $2500 transcons. It's often said that WN doesn't always have the lowest price, but they create a perception of value and they don't often "screw" you, $-wise.

On the issue of product, we have disagree. In an ideal world I'd like to have a better F product, especially if it remains accessible. But given the choice, I'll take an easy-to-access product that is a little inferior rather than having to ration upgrades. Of course I would also happily PAY for a Y-UP/A4COACH if you make it the lowest fully-refundable (see the AirTran way - they sell only Biz as refundable, making it relatively easy to justify). Heck, I'll even leave the little bottles of Maker's for Bob.

Where we differ is on FFOCUS, and that is likely a point for a different thread. I am hesitant to say the least to associate with the group. From where I sit (which is on the outside), I see a group that doesn't have a whole lot of credibility and on the face has accomplished little. Why would I want to join a group that tells me so little about the people I am associating with? Again, see the analogy to the population of Philadelphia earlier in this thread. It (FFOCUS) honestly comes off as a club for the "cool kids" who want to feel like "insiders". Perhaps that's why we only see a few of the hundreds of FFFOCUSers posting here. Where did others go? My bet is other airlines or that they've become inactive. FFOCUS doesn't seem to be about US, it seems to be about the egos of a few - and that's why you won't see my name on the list.

As a side note, since you don't even ask for flying profiles under the "Join FFOCUS" section of ffocus.org, how do you even have a substantial sample to base your claims on? Or do you expect me to join without knowing what information you will pump me for? Again... no thanks.

alluneedisluv

well gosh. I think the problem may be that HP knows exactly what U was: One of the most financially unsuccessful airlines in aviation history. I dont think AWA is anxious to follow the U model. One would think there goal it to turn a profit and run a financially viable business. Perhaps they would be better off listening to their shareholders before listening to FFOCUS.

PineyBob

That's why we haven't been all that gung ho to pursue a meeting. They have PLENTY of fish to fry without us in their faces right now.