unsafe PSA / usairways policies?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 179
unsafe PSA / usairways policies?
Sitting very close to a non rev pilot who works for PSA on behalf of usairways on the red eye from sea to CLT RIGHT NOW. He tells the guy next to him that he's on his way into work from his home in eastern Washington state (long drive or additional flight) to CLT where he will be flying for the next 4 days. Shouldn't we be concerned that this guy is going to get off a 5 hour flight with marginal sleep and be flying up and down the east coast for the next day? I have an enormous respect for pilots. Still would like to be one myself. But didn't we already see the ramifications of such behavior with the crash in buffalo. Is it reasonable that this guy stacks his days and commutes multiple thousand miles before going to the office? I could understand for some professions... But a pilot?
In sure that many will probably say that this is common and that pilots are underpaid on the regional airlines... But as the customer I'm not sure I care when it comes to the guy driving the plane.
In sure that many will probably say that this is common and that pilots are underpaid on the regional airlines... But as the customer I'm not sure I care when it comes to the guy driving the plane.
#2
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Since you have no idea exactly when his flights start, when his sleep breaks are, etc., how can you make such broad comments?
Too much uninformed speculation, IMO.
And by the way, PSA usually means public service announcements. Confusing thread title.
Too much uninformed speculation, IMO.
And by the way, PSA usually means public service announcements. Confusing thread title.
#3
Original Poster
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Posts: 179
Sorry for the confusion about PSA. That's the name of the regional provider.
#4
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That's a fair point. Still, i'm not sure I want any pilot getting off a red eye and then going to work the next day. Just doesn't seem to make sense to me as the layman. Interrupted and irregular sleep schedules are not great for anyone working in such high performance professions.
Sorry for the confusion about PSA. That's the name of the regional provider.
Sorry for the confusion about PSA. That's the name of the regional provider.
#5
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The title of this thread is misleading. This is not a US Airways policy about pilot rest, it's an FAA regulation that all airline crews have to follow.
Lots of airline pilots (and flight attendants) commute from a location far from their base. They often have to be very flexible in their travel plans because they need to basically fly 'standby', so it's quite possible he was getting to CLT early to give himself plenty of padding (and rest time) before actually flying.
Lots of airline pilots (and flight attendants) commute from a location far from their base. They often have to be very flexible in their travel plans because they need to basically fly 'standby', so it's quite possible he was getting to CLT early to give himself plenty of padding (and rest time) before actually flying.
#6
Join Date: Sep 2007
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I do love the opinions of non industry outsiders who havent a clue what goes into commuting...
Some people seem to forget that Sully commuted from California... Schedules at airlines arent glamorous... Many people would freak out what many employees do to get to work and the schedules they keep...
I commuted from ROA to DCA for 7 years... the majority of the time I was on the early flight to CLT/PHL/LGA to make the connection to DCA and on occasion I would head to IAD and take the bus and Metro to DCA... Then fly a long round trip DCA-MCI/DFW/RSW/PBI and then possibly a 2hr flight for the overnight. Start at 0330 from my house drive an hour to the airport, two legs to base, checkin, fly 3-5 flights end at midnight (god knows if there were irrops) and then get up the next morning to fly another 3-5 legs. Do that for 4 days and on the last day some how make it home...
Now think about your ground crews... that person pushing back the plane... 16hr shifts are not uncommon... Or my absolute fav ER Doctors! those 24hr shifts.... Tell me the person thats going to set my grandmothers broken wrist yesterday was going on 25hrs...
As others have said dont assume you know whats going on in that pilots life or his schedule. Further it has nothing to do with policies at US or PSA... Its an industry wide event...
Some people seem to forget that Sully commuted from California... Schedules at airlines arent glamorous... Many people would freak out what many employees do to get to work and the schedules they keep...
I commuted from ROA to DCA for 7 years... the majority of the time I was on the early flight to CLT/PHL/LGA to make the connection to DCA and on occasion I would head to IAD and take the bus and Metro to DCA... Then fly a long round trip DCA-MCI/DFW/RSW/PBI and then possibly a 2hr flight for the overnight. Start at 0330 from my house drive an hour to the airport, two legs to base, checkin, fly 3-5 flights end at midnight (god knows if there were irrops) and then get up the next morning to fly another 3-5 legs. Do that for 4 days and on the last day some how make it home...
Now think about your ground crews... that person pushing back the plane... 16hr shifts are not uncommon... Or my absolute fav ER Doctors! those 24hr shifts.... Tell me the person thats going to set my grandmothers broken wrist yesterday was going on 25hrs...
As others have said dont assume you know whats going on in that pilots life or his schedule. Further it has nothing to do with policies at US or PSA... Its an industry wide event...
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 179
The title of this thread is misleading. This is not a US Airways policy about pilot rest, it's an FAA regulation that all airline crews have to follow.
Lots of airline pilots (and flight attendants) commute from a location far from their base. They often have to be very flexible in their travel plans because they need to basically fly 'standby', so it's quite possible he was getting to CLT early to give himself plenty of padding (and rest time) before actually flying.
Lots of airline pilots (and flight attendants) commute from a location far from their base. They often have to be very flexible in their travel plans because they need to basically fly 'standby', so it's quite possible he was getting to CLT early to give himself plenty of padding (and rest time) before actually flying.
I found it interesting that this pilot seemed to suggest that this type of behavior would no longer be permitted by law come the first of the year, but would be almost impossible to enforce. I hope that's not the attitude of the industry writ large.
My point here is not to call out one individual, because this is clearly endemic throughout the industry. However, as an industry outsider and a consumer of the airline industry, I was honestly shocked to see such behavior which I'm sure the general public is not aware is still acceptable. As I said in my original post, I thought these things were corrected after the buffalo crash. But this seemed to me to be just another variation on the same tune.
The other posters are correct. I do not have all the facts. But even from the limited ones that I have, I refuse to accept that this is a good practice for a pilot to be commuting for so many hours.... In the middle of the night... And going to be flying around ANYTIME the next day.
As consumers we expect more.
#8
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I Now think about your ground crews... that person pushing back the plane... 16hr shifts are not uncommon... Or my absolute fav ER Doctors! those 24hr shifts.... Tell me the person thats going to set my grandmothers broken wrist yesterday was going on 25hrs...
As others have said dont assume you know whats going on in that pilots life or his schedule. Further it has nothing to do with policies at US or PSA... Its an industry wide event...
As others have said dont assume you know whats going on in that pilots life or his schedule. Further it has nothing to do with policies at US or PSA... Its an industry wide event...
Attending physicians in the ER work shift work, usually 10 hr shift. The days of the 24 hr shifts are over with...
Nurses are also governed on the amount of hours we can work which is 18 in the state of AZ. Trust me, after a 12 hr shift, I would not want any nurses working on me...
Just like any industry things get changed over time, usually when a big accident happens...
#9
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I fully understand now that this is completely above board. But in my mind, this behavior is akin to a pilot pulling an all nighter and then being expected to perform at his or her best. This is simply not feasible. Aside from one's own morals and ethics, what is it that stops a pilot from not sleeping for 24 hours and then flying a plane?
The other posters are correct. I do not have all the facts. But even from the limited ones that I have, I refuse to accept that this is a good practice for a pilot to be commuting for so many hours.... In the middle of the night... And going to be flying around ANYTIME the next day.
As consumers we expect more.
The other posters are correct. I do not have all the facts. But even from the limited ones that I have, I refuse to accept that this is a good practice for a pilot to be commuting for so many hours.... In the middle of the night... And going to be flying around ANYTIME the next day.
As consumers we expect more.
#10
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The views I express here are not necessarily supported by any airline or codeshare partners, nor do I represent their views and/or opinions. They are my own OPINIONS dont like them dont read them.....
Posts: 1,462
As an employee we expect more too... But alas someone always get the shorter end of the stick... and some times we share it in order to make it work...
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 179
You just do not get it, you are basing what you saw as fact and continue to believe that the pilot you saw getting off the red eye was marching off to work... He might have had one flight for his day at 9am and off duty until 1pm the following day... We would never know, but stop this "as consumers we expect more".... Until you have the facts in front of you.
Opinion. I find this unacceptable regardless of how long a "break"
#12
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Fact - you have no idea when his flight is "today". Landing at 6am from a red-eye and flying a 9pm commuter flight is of absolutely no concern to me. The fact that you just make an assumption that a professional pilot is going to violate FAA regulations and put his flight, his passengers, his career, and his life at risk is your issue.
Opinion - you have no idea what you're talking about. "no matter how long a break"??? Really? Lemme guess - you don't work for the FAA, have not studied 50+ years of pilot behavior, are not a sleep expert, and are making accusations based on no data because "it doesn't seem right". OK, whatever.
I find your posts unacceptable.
Opinion - you have no idea what you're talking about. "no matter how long a break"??? Really? Lemme guess - you don't work for the FAA, have not studied 50+ years of pilot behavior, are not a sleep expert, and are making accusations based on no data because "it doesn't seem right". OK, whatever.
I find your posts unacceptable.
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 76
Sitting very close to a non rev pilot who works for PSA on behalf of usairways on the red eye from sea to CLT RIGHT NOW. He tells the guy next to him that he's on his way into work from his home in eastern Washington state (long drive or additional flight) to CLT where he will be flying for the next 4 days. Shouldn't we be concerned that this guy is going to get off a 5 hour flight with marginal sleep and be flying up and down the east coast for the next day? I have an enormous respect for pilots. Still would like to be one myself. But didn't we already see the ramifications of such behavior with the crash in buffalo. Is it reasonable that this guy stacks his days and commutes multiple thousand miles before going to the office? I could understand for some professions... But a pilot?
In sure that many will probably say that this is common and that pilots are underpaid on the regional airlines... But as the customer I'm not sure I care when it comes to the guy driving the plane.
In sure that many will probably say that this is common and that pilots are underpaid on the regional airlines... But as the customer I'm not sure I care when it comes to the guy driving the plane.
#14
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
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The FAA changed some requirements after Colgan but nothing can prevent every situation that would lead a pilot to break the new rules (and I wasn't affected so don't remember the specific of the changes). Odds are excellent that the pilot was legal, though. If I were going to worry about pilot fatique I'd worry about perfectly legal scheduling while on a trip.
Jim
Jim
#15
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This thread might be a contender for one of the worst threads of 2013.