Fanjet

Aren't there airline crew rest areas for FAs and pilots at the base airports? And given the fact that every cockpit has two pilots in it and their lives are just as at risk as mine in the passenger cabin, I'm not concerned.

scottsam66

I don't think you should be bragging about essentially being sleep deprived while flying. yet somehow make it home. Not really reassuring.

That reminds me of college kids after drinking and driving! "Man,I was so wasted, I have NO idea how I made it home last nite,"
Incidentally, sleep deprivation and alcohol have much of the same effects on the brain and body.

scottsam66

I think he gets it just fine. Did you not read the post where the pilot basically laid out his scenario of sleep deprivation- like a badge of honor?

FlightNurse

What time was his flight? Flight #...

BoeingBoy

Crew room rest areas in the sense of sleeping areas, no. PHL used to have a "quiet room" adjacent to the crew room with recliners, but CLT never did up to the point I retired. Don't know about PHX or other airline's crew rooms except FedEx, who has sleeting rooms in MEM since they spend 4 or so hours there while the packages are sorted.

Jim

BoeingBoy

The airlines a in a constant tug-of-war between costs and profitability. Profit margins are small in the best of times. Anything that increases costs means raising fare, increasing or add fees. It starts with the mainline partner and flows down - very small differences in express type ops expenses can make the difference between keeping or losing a significant part of the express carrier's revenue and can mean the difference between continuing to operate and bankruptcy and ultimately going out of business.

Consequently, carriers of all sizes operate to the letter of the regulations after lobbying hard to minimize changes as they go through the regulatory process.

Jim

cwe84

"some how make it home" means we dont know if we are going to make the non stop or have to take 3 flights to get home...

But honestly that is the reality of the airline industry... If you dont like it tell your congressperson.... When they regulate the industry to death and you no longer have service to little town America cause pilots and flight attendants dont want to deal with rules about commuting then where will the industry be...

Airline personnel (not just Pilots and F/As commute just FYI even corporate people commute) have a multitude of reasons to be a commuter. A good friend of mine who is an FO for my former company commuted from Zurich. His wife works for Marriott and got transferred. So should we tell him they have to chose between the two jobs and he be a stay at home husband (cause he cant fly for swiss) or just never see each other... Or how about one of the former CO captains that commutes because his wife is a big cheese at a local university and has been at a few universities... Should he say sorry hun gotta get a divorce cause the traveling public thinks I should live in Cleveland...

Im not saying that being a commuter doesnt come with its issues but think of the other side what issues does it alleviate. Think about quality of life. I commuted because my base choices were too expensive. I could live off my 80 hrs a month while my friends who lived in base worked well over 100 to make ends meet... Maybe commuting allows for more time with family or better schools.

The decision lies with the individual and the personal situation that he or she has to deal with. It isnt right for someone to pontificate to another that they know whats best for them. As the saying goes walk a mile in my shoes...

Often1

Some people have tougher lives than others. Doesn't make the people with tougher lives unsafe.

FAA sets the rules based on scientific (medical) evidence. If OP has qualifications....

FlightNurse

There are people in this world who do not beleive in Reseach.....

able

Airlines grow and shrink pilot bases seasonally. Do you expect airline employees to pick up and move two times a year on their own dime?

Typical airline schedules also involve west to east red eye flights followed by a flip flop to an early morning east departure. Am I to understand that a shifting sleep pattern is fine if the airline schedules it but this same sleep shifting is "unacceptable" if it occurs because of a commute?

bkafrick

And if you want the industry to change to fit your "model" of proper "behavior", consumers will pay more.

Everything costs money. Who pays? The consumer.

scottsam66

If you buy OPs premise, then saying it won't work b/c we'd all have to pay more is not acceptable. You're basically saying it's okay to sacrifice safety to save a few bucks on a flight.
Especially when posters gripe about their experiencese with the airlines, the first thing many site is SAFETY, as a reason/excuse.
IMHO you can't have it both ways.

bkafrick

Yeah, thats why I put "model behavior" in quotes.

And there is always a safety vs price balance. If consumers wont buy it, safety doesnt matter - there won't be anyone to fly.

The best thing would be that every pilot flies 1 leg per day and never more than 4 hours at a time on a shift, so planes need to carry 4 pilots to get from NYC to LA. Would it meet the definition of "safety" - probably. Would it cost $3000 a ticket? Yes. Would anyone buy it? No way.

Kootur

What do you expect? A PSA f/o who makes 35k a year to live in PHL?

AMLFlyer

I think it is a two way street. Airlines need pilots to commute. Airlines can easily shift aircraft across the system to new bases because pilots are willing to commute. Airlines would have massive labor training costs and shortages if they required crews to relocate every time they shifted flying between hubs. They would likely not be able to be as flexible with their fleet planning. Nobody can relocate 2-3 times every year.

While the FAA isnt going to disallow commuting, the new rest rules and regulations the FAA is pushing through are going to likely end practices such as high speeds and continuous duty overnights that were popular with some commuters.

I think commuting is unsafe is when pilots are willing to fly into bad weather and with broken airplanes so they can make their commute home. Any dispatcher can tell you he has had pilots willing to take no ice birds into icing conditions or a shorter flight plan into an area of convection in order to get back to the domicile in time to get his flight back home.

Commuting can hurt customers. Pilots wanting to arrive early to have more time to commute home will avoid flying lower to avoid turbulence and will get closer to convective weather systems to cut down the time on their flight plan. But thats not even the big thing. Pilots that commute will often divert in bad weather to the airport they commute from and then either call in fatigued, drag their feet until they are out of duty hours or find maintenance issues to ground the plane overnight thus stranding the customers in the diversion point hundreds of miles away from the destination.

I think the lack of self-policing among pilots is what will eventually lead to restrictions on commuting. I think it will be a situation like the diversion events that led to the DOT three hour taxi rule. A bunch of planes will divert one night in bad weather to an outstation they all commute to and they will find a way to keep the planes and pax stuck overnight. Passengers will complain to the Feds and a regulation will soon follow.