Squeezed out on a US flight! What about passenger sizing? (merged threads)
Nov 23, 2011, 10:56 pm
#136
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FWIW Dept
Every time a thread like this comes along I feel constrained to point out to certain contributors that while opinions differ regarding the degree of personal responsibility involved in someone's weight, not a single one of us is responsible for his/her height. So they remain quite different in fact and implication.
Okay, maybe we should have drunk less milk as kids
Okay, maybe we should have drunk less milk as kids
Nov 23, 2011, 11:11 pm
#137
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Forced to stand during flight because of fat seat mate
“His size required both armrests to be raised up and allowed for his body to cover half of my seat,” Berkowitz said. “It did not allow me to use my seatbelt during takeoff and landing as well as required me to stand in the aisle and galley area for most of the seven-hour-plus flight.”
Berkowitz said he alerted flight attendants to the problem, but they were unable to accommodate him, according to his account on elliott.org. “They were sympathetic, but they could not do anything. No other seats existed on plane. They would not permit me to sit in their jump seats, and fully acknowledged the mistake by their gate agent, in allowing this individual on plane without requiring him to purchase and occupy two seats,” he said.
“His seatmate had the same right to his seat as Mr. Berkowitz did to his. So here’s where the diplomacy and cooperation of all passengers comes into play,” the airline said in a statement.
Nov 24, 2011, 12:21 am
#139
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I had about the same experience on a flight from LAS to IND three years ago. I was in the aisle seat next to 2 huge guys that looked to much alike not to be brothers. I spent the flight hanging on to what little bit of seat was left with my feet in the aisle. Their were no other seats to be had. Sadly their were others from the conference I had attended on the flight. If we had coordinated our plans this could have been avoided
Something needs to change. There should be a template at the gate, If you don't fit you don't fly.
Something needs to change. There should be a template at the gate, If you don't fit you don't fly.
Nov 24, 2011, 1:51 am
#140
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,439
Personally I dislike the term 'customer of size'- we don't have a 'customer of height', 'customer of age', 'customer of gender', 'customer of net annual income' etc. Just a horrible euphemism.
Nov 24, 2011, 7:03 am
#141
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Way to back-pedal. Have a great day.
Nov 24, 2011, 7:35 am
#142
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It's always been more expensive to be a larger person than a smaller person. It's just life.
Whether obese people are personally responsible for their weight (and the vast majority are; <5% of obese people are that way due to genetics) doesn't matter ultimately. All that matters is that if a person is too big for his seat, he is NOT entitled to any part of another seat for free.
Yet today, there is this outpouring of sympathy for obese people's "plight" even though naturally large people have always been spending extra to fit into the same world most average people take for granted.
Don't agree? Then consider...
- A man who is 6' 7" (198 cm) wants to buy a car. He wants to spend as little as possible on the car, getting a small one. He's also would be able to save more money on gas with that smaller car. But he finds that he can't fit into the smallest cars that he'd prefer to buy. So he has to spend more money on a larger car and on gas. Does he get to pay less for the car and for gas because he has a "natural condition" that "he cannot help"? Of course not.
- Same man wants to buy a suit. He'll very likely have to pay extra for that larger suit than an average-height man. Can the tall man expect to buy his suit for the average-man price because of his natural condition? Of course not.
- Same man wants to eat. Because of his natural size, he needs to eat more than a much shorter man. Can the tall man expect to only pay what a shorter man would need to be nourished? Of course not.
- Same man wants to sleep. He finds that he cannot sleep well on a standard-length bed. Does he get to buy the longer bed at the same price as the standard bed? Of course not.
US needs a simple huge-person policy: if you're too wide to fit in one seat, you must buy two seats, period. Southwest's policy is good, but likely too generous. There should be no refund just because the flight does not sell out. If US had such a policy, what would prevent an average-sized pax from buying an extra -- but refundable -- middle seat on a flight that is known to never fly full in order to guarantee an empty middle seat?
Whether obese people are personally responsible for their weight (and the vast majority are; <5% of obese people are that way due to genetics) doesn't matter ultimately. All that matters is that if a person is too big for his seat, he is NOT entitled to any part of another seat for free.
Yet today, there is this outpouring of sympathy for obese people's "plight" even though naturally large people have always been spending extra to fit into the same world most average people take for granted.
Don't agree? Then consider...
- A man who is 6' 7" (198 cm) wants to buy a car. He wants to spend as little as possible on the car, getting a small one. He's also would be able to save more money on gas with that smaller car. But he finds that he can't fit into the smallest cars that he'd prefer to buy. So he has to spend more money on a larger car and on gas. Does he get to pay less for the car and for gas because he has a "natural condition" that "he cannot help"? Of course not.
- Same man wants to buy a suit. He'll very likely have to pay extra for that larger suit than an average-height man. Can the tall man expect to buy his suit for the average-man price because of his natural condition? Of course not.
- Same man wants to eat. Because of his natural size, he needs to eat more than a much shorter man. Can the tall man expect to only pay what a shorter man would need to be nourished? Of course not.
- Same man wants to sleep. He finds that he cannot sleep well on a standard-length bed. Does he get to buy the longer bed at the same price as the standard bed? Of course not.
US needs a simple huge-person policy: if you're too wide to fit in one seat, you must buy two seats, period. Southwest's policy is good, but likely too generous. There should be no refund just because the flight does not sell out. If US had such a policy, what would prevent an average-sized pax from buying an extra -- but refundable -- middle seat on a flight that is known to never fly full in order to guarantee an empty middle seat?
Nov 24, 2011, 10:54 am
#143
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Suggested approach - just get off the airplane and go back to the gate agent, explain the situation and give them four options. They can either A) find me another seat on this flight; B) find me a seat on a different flight; C) find the pax of size a different seat(s) on this flight; or D) find the pax of size a different seat(s) on a different flight.
Since you have reserved an entire seat on the original flight and the airline could not accomodate you since POS was taking up some of your seat, I would suspect that IDB compensation would apply to you if the airline elected Option B above.
Having less then 100% of an entire seat available to you is just not acceptable. But the time to deal with it is before the airplane door closes. Force the airline's hand and make them find an acceptable resolution.
Nov 24, 2011, 5:12 pm
#144
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Why did you acquiesce and occupy that seat? I would not have under any circumstances. I would have refused to take a seat if the person in the seat next to it was spilling into the seat.
Suggested approach - just get off the airplane and go back to the gate agent, explain the situation and give them four options. They can either A) find me another seat on this flight; B) find me a seat on a different flight; C) find the pax of size a different seat(s) on this flight; or D) find the pax of size a different seat(s) on a different flight.
Since you have reserved an entire seat on the original flight and the airline could not accomodate you since POS was taking up some of your seat, I would suspect that IDB compensation would apply to you if the airline elected Option B above.
Having less then 100% of an entire seat available to you is just not acceptable. But the time to deal with it is before the airplane door closes. Force the airline's hand and make them find an acceptable resolution.
Suggested approach - just get off the airplane and go back to the gate agent, explain the situation and give them four options. They can either A) find me another seat on this flight; B) find me a seat on a different flight; C) find the pax of size a different seat(s) on this flight; or D) find the pax of size a different seat(s) on a different flight.
Since you have reserved an entire seat on the original flight and the airline could not accomodate you since POS was taking up some of your seat, I would suspect that IDB compensation would apply to you if the airline elected Option B above.
Having less then 100% of an entire seat available to you is just not acceptable. But the time to deal with it is before the airplane door closes. Force the airline's hand and make them find an acceptable resolution.
You are right, and after I had time think about it I decided to do just that in the future. I like to try and get along but these young men should have been required to purchase three seats which would have been just right for them.
Nov 24, 2011, 7:01 pm
#145
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The Canadian policy of requiring airlines to provide a free seat to am customer of size is bad but it is much better than what happens in the USA, where airline employees routinely ignore their own policies. If the Canadian policy were in force, the customer of size would have been denied boarding or a thinner customer would have been IDBed. Either way, no safety issue.
Nov 25, 2011, 6:47 am
#146
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 755
It's obvious that the FA's and GA's will take the path of least resistance: hoping that nobody complains about seat encroaching instead of proactively solving the problem. Lots of reasons why: unclear policy that's hard to enforce; the potential for the situation to get out of hand; the push for an on-time departure. Plus weight is a highly personal issue, even if it's completely visible, and people in general are a bit reluctant to confront someone about such issues. All we can do is to avoid becoming that least-resistant path. Don't be a jerk, but know how to tactfully take care of your own best interests and not back down. If your seatbelt was broken you'd feel comfortable asking the FA politely to resolve the problem. No reason the same approach and polite tone can't be used in this situation. I for one have a hard time believing the FA's and/or captain knowingly let the passenger not have a seat belt for take-off/landing. I know it's easy for the FA's to MISS that, though, and the passenger who didn't speak up should take a small bit of the blame too.
By not addressing the issue, the airline is counting on most of us NOT standing up for ourselves. Yes, it's a legal hornet's nest, but at the same time, not addressing the issue continues to place the rest of us into these situations, so the airline is in a way responsible for the problems that will arise.
Until we take the company to task for not addressing the situation in a responsible manner, we will keep hearing these stories. Let's face it, regardless of the reason the person is oversize, the vast majority of oversize customers are going to make someone else uncomfortable rather than fork over the cash to buy another seat.
The ironic part is that the same company stands with scale and tape measure at the ready to charge us more money for overweight and oversized bags, where the price charged relates to the cost involved - your surfboard takes up more hold space, you pay more, no questions asked. Why exactly is this different - because the bag doesn't have feelings?? No, because there is a written rule that is clear and enforced.
Nov 25, 2011, 11:21 am
#147
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Since the OMNI's are not for mileage, points or travel discussion, in general, and this topic is already being discussed in the US Airways forum, we'll move it there.
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Cholula
OMNI_PR Co-Moderator
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Cholula
OMNI_PR Co-Moderator
Nov 25, 2011, 11:29 am
#148
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If a passenger can't fasten his seatbelt because of a POS sitting on it, the flight should not be allowed to take off. A PDM (passenger displaying moderation) should never be required to stand or have less than a whole seat because a POS is ignoring his physical proportions.
Nov 25, 2011, 11:41 am
#149
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Nov 25, 2011, 11:45 pm
#150
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The ironic part is that the same company stands with scale and tape measure at the ready to charge us more money for overweight and oversized bags, where the price charged relates to the cost involved - your surfboard takes up more hold space, you pay more, no questions asked. Why exactly is this different - because the bag doesn't have feelings?? No, because there is a written rule that is clear and enforced.
HTSC