Pittsburgh Hub
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: UA,WN,AA,DL, B6
Posts: 4,193
Pittsburgh Hub
The PIT US Airways hub was always a very nice one. They dismanteled
it pc by pc. Lots of people lost there job too. Yet they turn around and put a hub in PHL. Just woundering the thought behind this. Do they make more money with PHL as a hub.
it pc by pc. Lots of people lost there job too. Yet they turn around and put a hub in PHL. Just woundering the thought behind this. Do they make more money with PHL as a hub.
#2
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 736
The demise of the Pittsburgh hub is a sad, sad, story - almost as sad as the demise of cities like Cleveland.
Some points -
The Pittsburgh market wasn't big enough for the folks doing origin/destination type travel, which is important for a hub (folks flying with a PIT - ... Itenerary as opposed to connecting).
Folks on the East Coast, even though they heard Pittsburgh wasn't that full of air traffic delays, weren't really interested in flying 1 hr west to then fly somewhere else, especially all of the Europe Destinations (London, Paris, Frankfurt)
US Airways eventually saw big East Coast Cities like PHL was where the $ was and moved more flights there.
I think too that they just had way too many flights to smaller airports in the western pa/northeast Ohio region - Youngstown-Pittsburgh and Latrobe-Pittsburgh come to mind. Heck, they even had Reading PA - Pittsburgh etc...
On Airliners.net there is a huge Pittsburgh crowd who was debated/written at great lengths about the demise of PIT. Sure, there have been airports that have shrunk in size, or medium airports with smaller hubs that went away (think America West/Columbus) but for such a new airport to be so huge, then shrink to so little size in only 10-12 years after opening, wow...
The silver lining for PIT folks is that the loss of the hub brought in WN and grew Airtran (I think they were around during the hub days - in fact - they briefly did PIT-PHL, bringing the fares down from $1,000 roundtrip) so folks from PIT do have affordable flying - just less destinations.
Some points -
The Pittsburgh market wasn't big enough for the folks doing origin/destination type travel, which is important for a hub (folks flying with a PIT - ... Itenerary as opposed to connecting).
Folks on the East Coast, even though they heard Pittsburgh wasn't that full of air traffic delays, weren't really interested in flying 1 hr west to then fly somewhere else, especially all of the Europe Destinations (London, Paris, Frankfurt)
US Airways eventually saw big East Coast Cities like PHL was where the $ was and moved more flights there.
I think too that they just had way too many flights to smaller airports in the western pa/northeast Ohio region - Youngstown-Pittsburgh and Latrobe-Pittsburgh come to mind. Heck, they even had Reading PA - Pittsburgh etc...
On Airliners.net there is a huge Pittsburgh crowd who was debated/written at great lengths about the demise of PIT. Sure, there have been airports that have shrunk in size, or medium airports with smaller hubs that went away (think America West/Columbus) but for such a new airport to be so huge, then shrink to so little size in only 10-12 years after opening, wow...
The silver lining for PIT folks is that the loss of the hub brought in WN and grew Airtran (I think they were around during the hub days - in fact - they briefly did PIT-PHL, bringing the fares down from $1,000 roundtrip) so folks from PIT do have affordable flying - just less destinations.
#3
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MKE
Programs: AA Exec Platinum, SPG Platinum / Ambassador / Lifetime Gold, Avis FIRST
Posts: 3,293
<insert standard "loss of PIT" lament here>
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
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Posts: 31,095
<then read all of the "Why did US leave Pittsburgh" threads from the last 5 years>
#5
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Programs: MR LT Titanium, IHG Plat.,UA Premier Silver, & PA/OH Turnpike Million Miler
Posts: 2,382
Hey maybe I am the only one with a long memory :-) While business is business, I still don't think US Airways bargained/worked with Allegheny County and the City of Pittsburgh in good faith. So for me I voted with my wallet and United became my primary airline and my other business is widely spreadout depending on price and convenience between Airtran, Delta, and Southwest. United doesn't provide good service to southern Florida which is one of my regular leisure destinations. Now with Continental as part of Star Alliance, I'll see if they can meet that need for me (though I stay away from EWR like the plague). To this day, I still try to avoid giving US business and only do so as a last resort. I am sure my small amount of business has no impact on US but it still feels like the correct ethical thing to do for me. Each to their own....
--Jon
--Jon
#6
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: Chick-Fil-A Red, Wawa, Red Cross blood donor
Posts: 4,838
I've been flying US out of PHL for about 20 years and always remember it as a hub.
#7
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: UA, DL, LH, Marriott, Amex
Posts: 554
The silver lining for PIT folks is that the loss of the hub brought in WN and grew Airtran (I think they were around during the hub days - in fact - they briefly did PIT-PHL, bringing the fares down from $1,000 roundtrip) so folks from PIT do have affordable flying - just less destinations.
Hey maybe I am the only one with a long memory :-) While business is business, I still don't think US Airways bargained/worked with Allegheny County and the City of Pittsburgh in good faith. So for me I voted with my wallet and United became my primary airline and my other business is widely spreadout depending on price and convenience between Airtran, Delta, and Southwest. United doesn't provide good service to southern Florida which is one of my regular leisure destinations. Now with Continental as part of Star Alliance, I'll see if they can meet that need for me (though I stay away from EWR like the plague). To this day, I still try to avoid giving US business and only do so as a last resort. I am sure my small amount of business has no impact on US but it still feels like the correct ethical thing to do for me. Each to their own....
--Jon
--Jon
#8
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
Jim
#9
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Columbia, SC
Programs: UAL 1KMM,Hilton Diamond
Posts: 759
I am not from PIT so I have no special interest. The international airlines were all serving PHL, not PIT. BA, LH, AF, etc. I believe SAS was there for some years. Yes, I know TWA served PIT to London and yes BA did when US was a partner. PHL is the international city. PIT as a great airport but that a hub does not truly make.
When US decided to expanded internationally, is choice had to be PHL over PIT.
I know these sites are filled with diehard PIT people.
Before deregulation ROA was the PI major hub. Was it going to work for a national Piedmont - I think not. Before they expanded the airport at CLT , PI was sending non-stops from ROA to BOS, DFW, etc. Sometimes folks got to make business decisions and not just on sentiment.
When US decided to expanded internationally, is choice had to be PHL over PIT.
I know these sites are filled with diehard PIT people.
Before deregulation ROA was the PI major hub. Was it going to work for a national Piedmont - I think not. Before they expanded the airport at CLT , PI was sending non-stops from ROA to BOS, DFW, etc. Sometimes folks got to make business decisions and not just on sentiment.
#10
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
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One of the reasons I stopped flying US (and I think I am by no means alone in this) is that they switched their hub to PHL from PIT. PIT was a much better hub. Far fewer delays than PHL. I would much rather fly an hour and connect in PIT than fly 30 minutes, which was more like two hours typically, and connect in PHL. Plus there were the amenities in PHL, like nasty people and lost bags. In any case Im quite a bit happier on AA now.
#11
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
I think your history is a little off. Before deregulation, PI had no hubs. Several cities had nonstop service to multiple markets - GSO, RDU, CLT, even FAY.
It was only after deregulation that PI developed a hub - CLT and later BWI followed by DAY.
Jim
It was only after deregulation that PI developed a hub - CLT and later BWI followed by DAY.
Jim
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA - DCA
Programs: BA Gold, American Airlines, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond
Posts: 5,075
PHL is a relatively major city; PIT is not. The O&D combined with the connects is what makes PHL the hub.
That's your answer despite where all the individual preferences may wish/hope/remember/dream/want.
That's your answer despite where all the individual preferences may wish/hope/remember/dream/want.
#14
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: PIT
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Posts: 522
#15
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: UA, DL, LH, Marriott, Amex
Posts: 554
One of the reasons I stopped flying US (and I think I am by no means alone in this) is that they switched their hub to PHL from PIT. PIT was a much better hub. Far fewer delays than PHL. I would much rather fly an hour and connect in PIT than fly 30 minutes, which was more like two hours typically, and connect in PHL. Plus there were the amenities in PHL, like nasty people and lost bags. In any case Im quite a bit happier on AA now.
I don't begrudge people for staying with US, however. You have to have the best FF program for you, and for many, US is good option.