Pittsburgh Hub

 
Old Feb 16, 2010, 11:57 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by flight62
For all the US Airways hating Burghers, your city couldn't negotiate a fair deal to keep the US hub by lowering the cost at the airport. Your city DID, however, find PLENTY of funding for two new stadiums. No pity here. The airport has adjusted just like a LOOOOOOOOONG list of other airports around the country abandoned by airlines. Next up? Cincy and Delwest. Memphis, hold on!!
This comment is pure revisionist fiction. First, the city does not own the airport, the county does. Second, the stadiums began to be built in the late 1990's. USairways declared bankruptcy in 2002. Finally during bankruptcy USAirways insisted publicly and privately to elected officials that the hub was safe, yet decided to reject all the Pittsburgh area leases literally moments before exiting bankruptcy. The "negotiation" after the lease rejection was just political posturing by USairways to give US a little bit of time to transition the operation to PHL. As BoeingBoy said there was simply not enough airplanes to run three hubs.
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Old Feb 16, 2010, 12:10 pm
  #32  
 
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the worst part about the demise of PIT is the increased frequency that i have had to fly through PHL, the red-headed stepchild of eastern seaboard airports. god forbid you have a 1 hr connection from A to F. i do everything i can to avoid that place...
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Old Feb 16, 2010, 1:53 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by myadvice
This comment is pure revisionist fiction. First, the city does not own the airport, the county does. Second, the stadiums began to be built in the late 1990's. USairways declared bankruptcy in 2002. Finally during bankruptcy USAirways insisted publicly and privately to elected officials that the hub was safe, yet decided to reject all the Pittsburgh area leases literally moments before exiting bankruptcy. The "negotiation" after the lease rejection was just political posturing by USairways to give US a little bit of time to transition the operation to PHL. As BoeingBoy said there was simply not enough airplanes to run three hubs.
Not to mention that this was the airport that was built to USair's specifications.
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Old Feb 16, 2010, 2:47 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by myadvice
This comment is pure revisionist fiction. First, the city does not own the airport, the county does. Second, the stadiums began to be built in the late 1990's. USairways declared bankruptcy in 2002. Finally during bankruptcy USAirways insisted publicly and privately to elected officials that the hub was safe, yet decided to reject all the Pittsburgh area leases literally moments before exiting bankruptcy. The "negotiation" after the lease rejection was just political posturing by USairways to give US a little bit of time to transition the operation to PHL. As BoeingBoy said there was simply not enough airplanes to run three hubs.
So is Pittsburgh in the same county as the airport? No money from the city of Pittsburg goes to the airport? Regardless, US owes nothing more to PIT than AA does to Nashville or RDU. As someone else mentioned, it's the beating a dead horse from burghers, employees and FF'ers alike that many get tired of hearing. I mean, move on already!!
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Old Feb 16, 2010, 2:48 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by Travels2mch
Not to mention that this was the airport that was built to USair's specifications.
That was a stupid move on the airports part and pretty arrogant for that part. Love him or hate him, Jerry Orr would NEVER make that kind of poor decision based on ANY airline.
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Old Feb 16, 2010, 2:58 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by flight62
For all the US Airways hating Burghers, your city couldn't negotiate a fair deal to keep the US hub by lowering the cost at the airport.
US demanded the 2 billion dollar airport be built to their spec, then attempted to use bankruptcy as a knife to bail on the deal. The county, rightly so, told them to snod off. It was the least ugly of all bad moves.

Originally Posted by flight62
Your city DID, however, find PLENTY of funding for two new stadiums.
Actually, the state coughed up the majority of new money for the stadiums.

(I lived there at the time--stadiums--and thought it was a stupid decision).

I hate revisionist history. To be clear--the county built US the airport it wanted. US waited until the last night of BK1 to reject the leases and then claimed to want to "negotiate" (after, BTW, providing assurances to the county that they would not reject the leases).

The moral of the story is that municipalities should not build things like an airport
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Old Feb 16, 2010, 3:03 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by flight62
That was a stupid move on the airports part and pretty arrogant for that part.
Like PHL building A-West and F for US or CLT expanding the E concourse for US? That kind of stupid and pretty arrogant decision?

Perhaps a little study of the history of the situation would be in order...

Jim
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Old Feb 16, 2010, 3:20 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by flight62
As someone else mentioned, it's the beating a dead horse from burghers, employees and FF'ers alike that many get tired of hearing. I mean, move on already!!
Actually, most of us have.....sure we'll never forget the past, and the hometown airline that we once had.....but really, most of us couldn't give a rats butt. USAirways died in the merger. This flying pig of a company is not the great airline that we knew. We're all spending much less to fly and doing it with companies that know how to treat their customers (and employees). So yes......we have moved on.
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 12:54 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by squatch
the worst part about the demise of PIT is the increased frequency that i have had to fly through PHL, the red-headed stepchild of eastern seaboard airports. god forbid you have a 1 hr connection from A to F. i do everything i can to avoid that place...
EWR and PHL are horrible for connections. The entire region is just too congested. ATL is also miserable, but not as bad. CLT is OK. When I was using PHL as a connection city I was missing my connection 50% of the time.
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 1:35 am
  #40  
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As frequent flyer what is important to use. If there is not a direct flight, in making a connection, what do we need.

(1) A short walk from our arriving gate to our departing gate

(2) On time flights to avoid missed cancellations

(3) Avoid congested airports. Have you been on a runway with 25 planes ahead of you waiting for takeoff

What we need and want are different economics

Airlines want to close hubs to save money and consolidate traffic (into congested airports)

PIT, STL, BNA, RDU, MCI, MEM were or are great places to avoid congestion

Yes, all these hubs can't serve every market like ORD and ATL can. If I am going to say
MIA or LAX, these hubs are fine.
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 11:06 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by ClueByFour
I hate revisionist history. To be clear--the county built US the airport it wanted. US waited until the last night of BK1 to reject the leases and then claimed to want to "negotiate" (after, BTW, providing assurances to the county that they would not reject the leases).
^ I believe it was literally minutes before emerging from BK. They rejected leases on all but ten of them. Lo and behold, these are the ten gates that US currently operates from today.
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 11:08 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy
PIT ceased being referred to as a hub after the cuts post-911 and in BK1.
Although really being an Express hub, I know that PIT was referred to as a hub until BK2. I recently was looking at an old Attache magazine from Spring 2004, and PIT is listed on the destination map page as a hub. I think it was demoted shortly after...
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 12:05 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by GotCalcio4
^ I believe it was literally minutes before emerging from BK. They rejected leases on all but ten of them.
Actually they rejected the leases on all the PIT gates, resulting in US paying about a 10% higher rate than they previously paid as a signatory leaseholder. Early in 2004 US signed leases on the 10 gates.

Jim
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 1:38 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by GotCalcio4
Although really being an Express hub, I know that PIT was referred to as a hub until BK2. I recently was looking at an old Attache magazine from Spring 2004, and PIT is listed on the destination map page as a hub. I think it was demoted shortly after...
Yup. US flew PIT-LGW as recently as Summer 2004.
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 3:35 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by flight62
So is Pittsburgh in the same county as the airport? No money from the city of Pittsburg goes to the airport? Regardless, US owes nothing more to PIT than AA does to Nashville or RDU. As someone else mentioned, it's the beating a dead horse from burghers, employees and FF'ers alike that many get tired of hearing. I mean, move on already!!
For the one who is telling us to move on, it seems you need to let go of a few things as well. Your lack of knowledge of what happened is rather staggering.

Others have already hit the nail on the head regarding how USAir demanded the airport to be built to their specifications, how they raked the locals across the coals with severely inflated fares, how they lied to the County Airport Authority, etc...

In 2000 I used to drive to CLE to fly CLE-PIT-STL. Due to WN in CLE, the flight was $69 r/t. If I flew that same itinerary originating in PIT, the flight was $329-$369 r/t. I used to count cars with PA plates in the long term parking at CLE. It was amazing how many people were doing it. The Post-Gazette not only had articles about how many people were going to CLE/Akron/Youngstown, but in the Sunday travel section they actually listed fares from CLE in addition to PIT.

You can say what you want about Pittsburgh, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. The fact is, Pittsburghers are fiercely loyal to the things that make us who we are as a population. We obviously support the sports teams, we only eat Heinz ketchup, and there was a time when people knowingly overpaid to fly USAirways because it was a hometown company and most everyone knew someone who worked there. Yes, I drove to CLE, but I still flew USAirways. After the lease rejections in the first bankruptcy, people were understandably angry.

But we've moved on, and as others have said, we're better off for it. No city in this country moves on from such things better than Pittsburgh. When the steel mills left town, the population moved on to white collar industries...and we lead the world in those fields (health care, technology, education, etc.). Losing USAirways as our main airline, losing access to all of those flights around the country and the world, losing the jobs - yeah, it hurt.

But don't dare say we haven't moved on.
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