sfeinberg

*sob*
*sob*
GSO-PIT ends 7/2/05





I guess it's PHL for me now...

zsmith2

PIT is no longer a hub, so it makes sense that they will cut flights from there. Not sure how profitable that route is but connecting to/from PHL makes more sense. It even makes more sense now that HP and US are going to merge having PHL, CLT, LAS, and PHX as hubs. You can't please everbody

hscottm

I dont want to get anyone started, but the commonly accepted (albeit often debated) sentiment on FT is that PIT and PHL were too close together to be hubs in the same airline. Someone tell me how LAS and PHX are different?

I realize that LAS has much less service than PHX and is close to PIT in terms of level of service (~200 flts/day). So then why in all the merger stuff were the hubs listed as such?

Like I said, no war please. I just honestly dont get it.

LAX and SFO for UA are a bit different - two massive metro areas and both with huge international gateways. I know PHX and LAS are big and growing but they aint LAX and SFO..

SOBE ER DOC

As someone moving to PIT in July I'm certainly sad to see US cutting more flights from PIT, but we need to face reality. Two hubs and four focus cities so close together does not make sense.

PHL, CLT, LGA, BOS and DCA all have one thing in common: they are major centers of commerce that are growing. PIT, on the other hand, is a metro area that is LOSING population and jobs. How can a region that is shrinking support more flights at a time when the industry is overcapacity and the primary airline serving the airport is transitioning from a traditional spoke and hub airline to an O&D carrier (minus the CLT hub)? PIT just does not support a lot of O&D traffic.

Is it sad? Yes. Is PIT a superior airport? Yes. Do we hate PHL as a connecting hub? You betcha. Does US's business strategy here make sense? Unfortunately, yes it does. Given the planned merger with HP, it makes sense to drop cities, particularly cities in the west that can be served with a conection in PHX or LAS.

It's sad but it's over for PIT. The best it can hope for is to maintain as many flights as possible and hope that WN or new LCCs will pick up some of the slack / increase O&D flights as the market forces demand.

JAXPax

LAS has much larger O & D traffic than Pittsburgh. Additionally, the LAS hub's peak time is late at night. Of course, they are expanding the daytime flights lately, but late night (10pm to midnight) is the primary focus. It's an efficient use of planes by keeping them running to LAS and back during the night rather than sitting at an outstation.

sts603

yes, PHX is the large connecting hub for HP. Their late-night deployment when PHX flights would be largely empty is a brilliant way of increasing aircraft utilization. US should take lessons from HP....oh wait a minute.....

JAXPax

While it's true it is brilliant.....
Would it work in the US route system?
The 11pm bank out of CLT is the closest thing US has to late night flying (other than transcon redeyes).

How many people would want to go PHL-GSO at 1am though?

jcooke

They do. Its called summer WX delays at PHL.

FWAAA

The main difference, IMO, is the tremendous amount of O & D traffic at LAS. Rivals that of MCO. Many millions of passengers. PHX is still a fast-growing metropolis that can also support HP's hub. Neither LAS nor PHX is impacted by weather or ATC constraints that plague PHL.

PHL is probably one of the worst airports to try to maintain a hub. Not enough runways, too frequently hit by bad weather, ATC congestion, etc. PIT made more sense as a hub except for the lack of substantial O & D. PIT is no Chicago or Atlanta or Dallas.

hscottm

thanks all for replies - I didnt know about HP's "late night" use of planes through LAS. so its not a traditional hub, but it is getting lots of flights due to efficient use of planes (btw, is HP following National Airline's old strategy there?)

one fyi for people not paying attention - US dehubbing PIT and other carriers coming in led to the expected result: lower prices and higher O&D traffic. its what we all assumed would happen when it wasnt as attractive to drive to CLE, CAK, etc. of course its not LAS or PHX.. see below for press release.

the PIT convention bureau is guns blazing now in their promotional literature with this as well as the drop in ticket costs at PIT to woo potential events.

--

(from flypittsburgh.com):

PITTSBURGH, PA (May 13, 2005) � Nine airlines operating at Pittsburgh International Airport have reported a significant increase in passengers through March 2005, according to the Scheduled Airline Traffic Report issued by the Allegheny County Airport Authority. Airlines other than US Airways show a combined year-to-date increase of 35.5 percent increase in passenger traffic (864,235 through March 2005/637,937 through March 2004).

"Last year was record breaking for origination and destination passenger traffic at Pittsburgh International Airport. That is, 3.75 million passengers started their trips in Pittsburgh, breaking the previous high mark in 2000. So far this year, we are on pace to surpass 2004 O&D statistics", Allegheny County Airport Authority Executive Director Kent G. George said.

sts603

Agreed. However, the 11 p.m. CLT bank could be signifigantly expanded. The 8 p.m. arrivals is a mess - I've held for 40 mins in the air last two times now because of back-ups and the weather/wind has been perfect. So spread a little of that into the 10 arrive 11pm depart bank. Example, we used to have a 10:15 CLT-BNA that I used all the time. It's now 9:05. The nice thing for 11 p.m. departures on westbound CLT departures is that the flights gain an hour and still get in before midnight (thus aren't a turnoff to as many people). Think BNA, MEM, Lexington, Louisville, etc. Also, you could fill out the 10 p.m. bank in PHL. Also, some more late evening westbound departures to cities with DEN and PHX with some red-eyes coming back leaving at midnight or 1 am back to the east coast may work. Loads would likely not be great but that was the whole point of red-eyes to begin with, a flying plane is often better than a sitting plane in terms of revenue.

lvfs

LAS is officially called a "secondary hub" in the announcement of the merger. This describes it's hub status with HP currently, as most hub traffic is O&D. Few HP passengers connect at LAS. A high percentage of HP nonstops out of LAS are redeyes, often the only nonstop of the day to that city. I seem to remember reading that LAS is second only to LAX in terms of total O&D traffic, though would suspect MCO to be up there, too. With almost 40 million visitors a year most of whom arrive by air, LAS certainly has much higher O&D traffic than PIT, CLT, PHX, and even PHL. HP's hubs being so close together doesn't make sense at cursory glance, but works the way they do it.

As an aside, I don't understand why US is kept PHL as a hub and de-hubbed PIT. PHL is a much larger city and would be a great "focus city". PIT is a more modern airport and lacks the congestion issues. It also is a little more centrally located. Both, of course, have WX issues.

UAL123

I have to say I like PIT better than PHL.

zrudeboyz

Man, I was on that flight this morning, that stinks.

Last week I was going through PIT to GSO and had a 3 1/2 hr layover, asked in the club if there were any other flights I could get on earlier and she replied, "no, there have been cuts." This is just another cut I guess.

This route is using a Jetstream 41 now when I thought it had been an RJ in the past; I'm not sure though.



Our "Location" looks pretty similar eh sfeinberg?

mersk862

GSO-PIT has been on a Jetstream since about September...I think they pulled the RJs out when the fall schedules came out.

Anyone know how GSO-BWI is doing? That's the other Junkstream route out of GSO...always seemed like the strangest route out of GSO to me...