blairvanhorn

Gee, thanks, Flyer from Chicago.

kokonutz

Having just spent over an hour at the 'new and improved DMV' yesterday, I do find calling ANY UA employee 'lazy' just plain ignorant of how truly lazy CS personnel can be. My view is this: good 90%, excellent 5%, poor 5%. Realize that is by current eexpectations which are much reduced from 1997 levels...at which time i would have callled current service 50% goood, 48% pooor and 2% excelllent...it really is all about expectatooons..

B Watson

There are of course some FANTASTIC UA employees - the problem is there are also a vast number who don't care and believe the company is run for them and not the benefit of the customers and ALL shareholders. Part of this is an increasingly militant tone in their unions, which have in the past killed many good companies. Is the Morale issue a problem - SURE, I have no doubt it is a depressing place to work today, but they need to make the best of it to save the airline.

I have a simple Pavlov's dog style approach to dealing with FA's - If they are short or rude to me I am as cold as possible. If they are pleasant, I go out of my way to acknowledge them, thank them and be helpful. The issue I have with this thread is that many people think it is the PAX obligation to make the first move - this is NOT true - it is the employees job. If the FA is pleasant and the PAX is rude, so be bit - the PAX is a jerk and does not deserve anything more than basic service. But I say again, the tone and first move is the responsibility of the FA, not the PAX! They set the scene and I know that all of you can tell a good crew before you even get your bum in the seat.

Carioca Canuck

FWIW I've never been happier as a traveller since I've been on UA.

Hey...things go wrong...and some airlines are just plain, well...try AC for a change and you'll see what I mean...it's like a night and day comparison.



[This message has been edited by Carioca Canuck (edited 07-11-2002).]

Gaucho100K

Nate, Im almost tempted to start a new thread about this. Are you saying that there is ground to be concerned about safety at United?

mdtony

Nate, you're absolutely right. People want the service levels from the days of pre-deregulated flying. I remember my dad complaining back in those days about how much it cost to get the whole family to San Diego and back. I think the fare back then ran him around $300 per person. That's about what it will run you to get there if you plan ahead now. And that was what, 25 years ago?

Once upon a time, flying was a glamorous thing. Now, it's like you said, just a bus with wings. It's transportation.

If you want the pre-deregulation experience, be ready to shell out those prices -- adjusted, of course, for inflation. Let's see, $300 in 1978 dollars is what in 2002 dollars? That's 24 years, and if you assume a four percent inflation rate and use the rule of 72, it would double every 18 years. So you would be looking at $750 for a transcon, advance booking, non-refundable fare.

Something has to give, folks. If you don't want to pay $750 for a ticket you book a month in advance, it's going to be the service.

We are never going back to the service levels of the glory days of civil aviation, just like we are never going back to the days where airlines would hire folks with no piloting experience and train them.

And Nate, I guess I'm one of those guys who gives in like you. When they lost my luggage, instead of pitching a fit, I just said, okay, where are my bags, and when can you get them to me? The guy actually said to me, you're very calm about this, sir. I said to him, well, obviously, I'm not happy, but screaming and shouting at you isn't going to make my bags appear, is it?

My attitude when there's a problem is let's find a way to solve this problem. Let's not get all bent out of shape about it. All that does is stress me out, stress the CSR out, and does it help solve the problem?

No, the airline isn't perfect. But it does a good job, and I'm happy with it.

[This message has been edited by mdtony (edited 07-11-2002).]

kokonutz

I've paid more then $750 for transcons...and back in our fathers' days (or prmex's first years as a 1k ), that'd have been for a flexible, refundable one, not $100 more to leave 2 hours later...yet the standards are still 2002, not 1970 or evev 1995...UA SHOULD be more then a bus with wings, IMHO

Seiple

In those days it was also either Y or F, and 3:00am departures if you wanted the equivalent to today's least-discounted ticket. We can go back to those days if you'd like, but they'll be no more mileage runs unless you're willing to shell out that $750 for every coach seat on every flight every day on every airline between that city-pair.

mdtony

I just had to shell out $1,075 for a ticket because I didn't have any notice on it, so I feel your pain. Believe me. Oh, yeah, the taxes made that more than $1,100.

But I'm saying if we want to go back to those pre-deregulation service levels, we are going to have to routinely shell out $750 or so for a booked way in advance, non-refundable flight, because that's what those $300 tickets would cost now.

I don't think that would fly. People are to used to getting roundtrip transcons for $250 or less, and they're happy with it. I'm saying you just can't expect the same service level for the prices we're paying now. ore than a flying bus? Well, it probably already is that.

It's been a long time since I took a Greyhound -- think it's been since college -- but I recall that bus being dirty, with no assigned seating, and no drinks being served while I was on it.

So, while it isn't at the pre-deregulation level of service, I think that UAL provides you with a little more than a bus with wings would.

Can it be better? Of course it can. The question is, how much are you willing to pay for it? And how much are others willing to pay for it?

[This message has been edited by mdtony (edited 07-12-2002).]

PremEx

Katto Naldz writes: Why I'm so old, when I went to High School, there was no History! [rimshot]

Apologies to Mister Dangerfield

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 07-11-2002).]

B Watson

I totally agree on the heavily discounted domestic travel point - it is not possible to provide the same level of service to the entire cabin on fares that are so historically low. However, that is not an explanation as to why I can pay almost 10K for a F RT to LHR and still get the attitude. We do not live in an egalitarian society and business are in business to make money. That means that you have three classes of passengers on board:

(A) Those that are on the cheapest ticket and should expect to get to their destination safely and not much else

(B) Those who are loyal (elite) flyers and may be on a cheap ticket as well expecting recognition that they are more valuable to the airline than category A

(C) Full fare front cabin that need to be treated like it from check in all the way to baggage claim.

THEN, we would all be able to get what we pay for. The Asian airlines get this stratification, but we are so worried about not being politically correct that the US airlines can't seem to get out of the own way to take care of those few customers that drive their yield.

Seiple

I completely agree with you. However, the bulk of the American traveling public cannot grasp this. As we have seen to the extreme with as many searches of one-legged wheelchair-bound veterans as viable threats to security, the American people don't like others having special treatment when they themselves cannot have it. They want all for nothing and dislike it when they cannot have it. Example in point: As many have said, the daggers in their backs they feel from the eyes of all those in the long coach line when they use their hard-earned Elite benefits and walk to the First Class check-in line to be helped promptly. Our society seems to frown upon cut and dry class distinctions.

Indurain

But they fly planes manufactured by a company named AIRBUS!

As for the rest of the thread, I'll respond as soon as I post this complaint on untied.com about the disservice I've been receiving from United-related boards. I mean, where's priority posting priviledges for a 1K?

FIKMM

As A MM Ik flyer I miss the Days when Pat Patterson was President. Service was what United was about. As time passes the employees who really cared about the customer and United have retired. Deregulation and travel management programs now force us to fly the least expensive alteratives. A new business model (SW) now is inplay.United must change with the times to survive and unpleasantly must learn to accept less than what I have expected in the past. When I get upset I vote with my feet and fly American so far I haven't found them much better.

Catman

Remember, every flight is going to be a new and different experience. You can have the most wonderful flight or the worst. Or in between.

I am just happy that:

*The plane takes off relatively on time
*The flight is safe
*I get an crew that does it job. Smiles are a nice plus.
*I land safely and relatively on time.

And as I said before... guess Ihave been lucky. Few if any complaints about this airline.

And NO complaints about the UA Staff at EWR. Friendly, responsive, helpful.

I've seen it at other airports too but since I use EWR the most... I've seen UA at its best.

Kudos also to the JFK staff and some of the SFO Staff as well.